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Old 06-20-2005, 08:26 PM   #16
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Re: Re: Where do we begin to co-exist?

Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Sorry, if you all hate the tone of the rhetoric in this nation, the blame goes squarely to the Right, and we're reaping what they've sowed.

Melon


And it's not narrow minded rhetoric like this that's not responsible for the nasty tone in the country? The right AND left are equally responsible for the nasty rhetoric. Anyone who says otherwise is dillusional.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


You don't think Al Gore,
I think Al can be a wuss most times.

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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson,
I think they can both be a littley looney sometimes, especially JJ recently with the Jackson trial.


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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Ted Kennedy, James Carville, and others play hard ball?
Ted is extremely intelligent and does a lot of good sometimes and other times I'm ashamed. James on the other hand can talk tough but really doesn't hold much power.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:32 PM   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Where do we begin to co-exist?

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Originally posted by ImOuttaControl




And it's not narrow minded rhetoric like this that's not responsible for the nasty tone in the country? The right AND left are equally responsible for the nasty rhetoric. Anyone who says otherwise is dillusional.
I agree that the left and right are both responsible, but can we really say the country was AS divided under Clinton? Think about it.

Anyways I took this thread to be more general and not just about the US, but maybe I was wrong.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:42 PM   #19
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Clinton presided over the end of history, Bush wound up with the reboot.

It is US-centric and it always is; when somebody says conservative or right it comes down to abortion and gay rights and the players on the US political scene who are against it. Nobody ever thinks about Churchill or Disraeli let alone the thinkers like Rand, Hayek or Strauss; the political philosophies that influence the right, the history of it and the state that it is in today. Or even bother to look objectively at the right; which is really just everybody who is not considered to be left or tow that line and it's positions. I read plenty of right leaning publications and I do see the big bad right as portrayed by greens, marxists and socialists as almost a caricature of the reality.

The best debate is to be found in between different schools of "right" thinking because there is such variety of ideas and ideals.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
To me co-existing means I don't have to like what someone else thinks or does, but it's not my right to stick my nose in and make him/her change to fit my view. You (that you means anyone/everyone) can believe whatever the hell you want (no matter how ludicrous I find it ), as long as you don't deprive someone else of the same rights you demand for yourself.

To me that means that religion, medical decisions, marriage status, sexual orientation, etc., etc., should be private matters and not something the majority decides.

We could all coexist a whole hell of a lot better if we would just keep our noses out of other people's business.
Agree wholeheartedly with your post, indra .

And yes, I think both the left and the right can really make their respective sides look bad at times. It's the extremists on both sides that cause a lot of the problems, I think.

Angela
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Old 06-20-2005, 09:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Clinton presided over the end of history, Bush wound up with the reboot.

It is US-centric and it always is; when somebody says conservative or right it comes down to abortion and gay rights and the players on the US political scene who are against it. Nobody ever thinks about Churchill or Disraeli let alone the thinkers like Rand, Hayek or Strauss; the political philosophies that influence the right, the history of it and the state that it is in today. Or even bother to look objectively at the right; which is really just everybody who is not considered to be left or tow that line and it's positions. I read plenty of right leaning publications and I do see the big bad right as portrayed by greens, marxists and socialists as almost a caricature of the reality.

The best debate is to be found in between different schools of "right" thinking because there is such variety of ideas and ideals.
But how much is this the right's fault? I've seen many in here that have stated they voted conservative for these reasons alone.

We all make caricatures of ourselves, but the right has done a damn good job of feeding these stereotypes, let's not forget that.
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Old 06-20-2005, 09:16 PM   #22
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Where do we begin to co-exist?

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Anyways I took this thread to be more general and not just about the US, but maybe I was wrong.
I think that outside of the U.S., liberals and conservatives do coexist. My point was that I don't think the Republican Party is frankly interested in cohabitation. They're solely interested in their way and their way alone. And with that territory comes rampant hypocrisy; a hypocrisy that blocked hundreds of judges during the Clinton Administration, but whines like a hyena when Democrats block less than 10.

And I've been paying attention to Canada, which, up to this point, was living in relative cohabitation. That is, until Stephen Harper started hiring U.S. Republican strategists to try and use gay marriage as a wedge issue, and now post-PC Canada is seemingly starting to devolve into the same petty debates and divisiveness.

When I blame the Right for this bitter partisan rhetoric, I don't say it to be contrary. No, frankly, it really is their fault, because I see absolutely no evidence that conservatives at all are interested in compromise.

Melon
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Old 06-20-2005, 09:19 PM   #23
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where do we begin to co-exist?

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I think that outside of the U.S., liberals and conservatives do coexist. My point was that I don't think the Republican Party is frankly interested in cohabitation. They're solely interested in their way and their way alone. And with that territory comes rampant hypocrisy; a hypocrisy that blocked hundreds of judges during the Clinton Administration, but whines like a hyena when Democrats block less than 10.

And I've been paying attention to Canada, which, up to this point, was living in relative cohabitation. That is, until Stephen Harper started hiring U.S. Republican strategists to try and use gay marriage as a wedge issue, and now post-PC Canada is seemingly starting to devolve into the same petty debates and divisiveness.

When I blame the Right for this bitter partisan rhetoric, I don't say it to be contrary. No, frankly, it really is their fault, because I see absolutely no evidence that conservatives at all are interested in compromise.

Melon
I agree to a certain point, the right here in the US will not be interested in coexistance until they lose power.
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:28 PM   #24
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On a side note, a lot of what constitutes the "conservative" movement in the US today is really best characterized as a right leaning populism. The more classical conservatism, which had more of a liberitarian streak to it, seems to have been pushed to the wayside a bit (the conservatism of the thinkers A_Wanderer mentioned). Many "conservative" pundits on TV would back Bush even if he advocated big government.
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:31 PM   #25
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Which he does in his social spending; the compassionate side of "compassionate conservatism" is an excuse for big government social regulation.
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:32 PM   #26
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i long for the day that Pepsi and Coca-Cola can be friends, and someday work together in forming the ultimate cola.
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:34 PM   #27
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No I wan't nothing to do with Pepsi; vile cola that it is.
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Old 06-20-2005, 11:00 PM   #28
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I don't post a lot on FYM because I find myself being one of the wishy-washy types who comes across as kind of, well, let's just say if I ran for office Karl Rove would have a field day.

For instance, I feel the war in Iraq has been a mistake. It was handled poorly, fought at the wrong time, with faulty intelligence which the powers at be very likely lied about.

On the other hand...I am optimistic that the motives for going into Iraq were not bad ones---to take out a murderous dictator whose actions had led to thousands of deaths as well as sanctions that were only hurting his people. To try to start a arab democracy in the middle east which would hopefully encourage other countries in the region to embrace democracy and thereby curbing the people's desire to join terrorist groups, etc.

It's unfortunate that many pro-war types like to question the patriotism of those who disagree with them--or make the argument that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Just like it is unfortunate that some anti-war protesters used simplistic soundbites like "no blood for oil" "war is bad" or "What did Saddam ever do to us" to make their points when there were so much better arguments out there. But in today's political climate it is not surprising Comparing someone a nazi has lost a lot of it's offensivness, simply because it has become such a cliche.

And before I start coming off as conservative leaning, let me just say I agree with Melon that the right (not all, just some with great amounts of power) does bear a bit more of the blame for this climate of division by making everything into a black and white issue.

Okay, off my soapbox and back to other pressing topics, namely, the state of Bono's hair....
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Old 06-20-2005, 11:02 PM   #29
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Oh, and I agree, Coke will never be friends with Pepsi! Blasphemy of the highest order!
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Old 06-20-2005, 11:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Which he does in his social spending; the compassionate side of "compassionate conservatism" is an excuse for big government social regulation.
cough cough BULLSHIT

That's the biggest escapism I've seen in this forum ever! I can't believe someone as intelligent as you would say something like this. His big government has nothing to do with compassion!!!
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