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Old 02-09-2005, 02:19 PM   #1
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where discussion can take us

nowhere.

in FYM and in many other places, we have different opinions, we put forth arguments and try to convince people with completely opposite opinions and mindsets. i was reading a bertrand russell book and he touched on the subject as well. its pointless. arguing against someone with different opinions and telling them they are wrong cause you are right never gets us anywhere. therefore its a waste of time for all involved. the only possible course of action open to the parties is to fight it out with their available resources (time, in our case, or armies and bombs on a larger scale) and see who wins.

for instance, the case with iran. if they want to make nukes that badly, you can not tell them it is wrong and convince them not to do it, because obviously theyve given thought to it and decided contrary. all you can do is to delay the process by giving certain incentives to increase the payoff for NOT building nukes (or reducing the payoff of building nukes) however it is impossible convey the message of nuclear arms being bad, because their opinion is just the opposite.

pelebs, a psychologist, argued that mind is first and foremost a device that helps us take sides on any certain issue.

so, is there any point in arguing people with completely different opinions? what can we really achieve by talking about iraq war or for that matter, any issue where 2 opposite camps are involved?
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:29 PM   #2
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i disagree

i'm am in my 40s and have changed my opinion on issues


Discussions are helpful


screaming over each other is not



Discussions on this board have caused some to modify their opinions


Iran’s nukes are a completely different thing



Quote:
mind is first and foremost a device that helps us take sides on any certain issue.
that is one approach

there are others

why not seek to understand others point s of view


that weight against own beliefs should lead to better knowledge
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:41 PM   #3
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Discussion is a tool for learning.
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:51 PM   #4
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i agree. but what i mean is it doesnt solve issues. it doesnt bring any closure because the different sides dont come to a single resolution.
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:58 PM   #5
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Given the same set of “facts”

12 members of a jury do not always agree.


But, discussion is the best way to reach an understanding and perhaps reach a consensus.

If you are saying you never change your mind on anything
and the people you talk with never agree with you.

Well, I have an opinion about that.
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:58 PM   #6
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Reasonable discussion is one of the most powerful tools we have.

When people become aggressive and closed-minded, that is when it changes from discussion into dispute and fails.
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:59 PM   #7
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of course the jury members wouldnt agree, because they have their personal opinions and feelings about the issue, so they use these just as much as (maybe even more) than the given set of facts.

but you are right, it is the best way to reach a consensus, since the only other way is to fight it off.

that is why consensus is so hard to reach.

also, axver, of course some discussions are resourceful, but cases where there is a REAL conflict of interest, such as the iraq war, it doesnt help.

bush wanted saddam deposed, access to his oil reserves, and saddam wouldnt even discuss those because, well i think its obvious why. so they went to war. thats what happened. if there is a real conflict of interest, no amount of discussion would help. the same thing with the UN... everyone talks and then the security council gets their way, or the strongest does. thats what im saying.
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Old 02-09-2005, 04:03 PM   #8
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Discussion can be a learning tool, and a challenge, but harping rants and personal attacks are not worthwhile.
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Old 02-09-2005, 04:30 PM   #9
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FYM is not about solving issues, but about sharing viewpoints.

Like deep, I have changed my positions and views on subjects based in part on the thoughtful discussions held here.

Even the less productive posts and threads are good learning tools - helping to "thicken the skin" and sort through the BS to get to the core point.
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:59 PM   #10
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Talking about things, discussions, debate, is a good thing.

Methinks


*elevation*
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