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Old 02-11-2004, 10:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
No more an issue than having sex with interns.....
So, in other words, it's HUGE?
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:53 PM   #32
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For purely political purposes, its as good as it can get
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Old 02-12-2004, 12:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
No more an issue than having sex with interns.....
Sorry I wasn't clear. It seems to be quite an issue, simply by the fact it is discussed endlessly.

On the other hand, much like Clinton's lying and debauchery...so I guess it comes down to personal opinion on what is important and so on...

My non American opinion is there is something typically political about both these men. Perhaps compromises on honestly and character is something most politicians need to make. Not need, I guess, but are somewhat forced to because it is such a dirty game...

I dunno, I'm rambling.

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Old 02-12-2004, 02:41 AM   #34
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The fundamental issue with this is that Kerry's military record is out in the public. Bush's public record is spotty at best.
Bush should have the balls to make his complete National Guard record public, then allow individual voters to formulate their own judgment.
The issue with Bush is that his name was skipped ahead of around 2,000 other volunteers so he could get to the top of the National Guard acceptance list. Not to mention he was trained to fly the aging F-102 which began retirement in 1970 from foreign service. So the chances of him ever being called to Vietnam was zilch.
One consistency with Clinton, he was honest about evading the draft. I believe what people chose to do during Vietnam is up to them, however they need to be honest about it.

Good article from The Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bush072899.htm
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Old 02-12-2004, 07:49 AM   #35
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http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...12020309990001
"I don't remember seeing him. That does not mean he was not there," said Wayne Rambo, who was a first lieutenant with the 187th Supply Squadron at Dannelly Air National Guard Base at the time. The AP contacted more than a dozen former members of the unit on Wednesday, and none could recall ever running into Bush.

...
Meanwhile, a retired Texas National Guard officer said Wednesday he overheard a conversation in 1997 between then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, and then-Adjutant Gen. Daniel James of the Texas Air National Guard in which he contends those two men spoke about getting rid of any military records that would ''embarrass the governor.''

Former Lt. Col. Bill Burkett told the AP that he saw documents from Bush's file discarded in a trash can a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin, Texas. Burkett described them as performance and pay documents. He said the documents bore the header: ''Bush, George W. 1lt.'' - meaning first lieutenant.
...

I don't think talking about an issue is enough to drive moderates into Bush's arms. Especially if they have concern over deficits and the environment. If it does, oh well, he's aleinating the far right on his own.

edited to add

I don't think a National Guardsman would be allowed time off to campaign for a buddy during this time of war. "Oh by the way I can't go to Iraq, I need time off" Would it be so easy then?
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Old 02-12-2004, 08:24 AM   #36
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About that picture...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/11/wbr...age/index.html

An excerpt from the article

Wednesday, a Kerry campaign aide confirmed that Kerry was at the rally and he did speak.

But Kerry's aides stress that he and Jane Fonda were only acquaintances; the rally was nearly two-years before Fonda's contentious trip to North Vietnam; and, they say, Kerry did not support Fonda's trip.

Jane Fonda spoke for herself, telling CNN:

"My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie. Any attempt to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands. And they're also saying this organization, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, was a Communist organization. This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic. So anyone who slams that organization and slams Kerry for being part of it is doing an injustice to veterans. How can you impugn, how can you even suggest, that anyone like Kerry or any of these veterans were not patriotic? He was a hero there."
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Old 02-12-2004, 08:28 AM   #37
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Thanks for the update.

When I attended the Feb anit-war rally in Washington, there were several organizations that I didn't agree with , however the reason for the rally was more important than individual speeches.
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Old 02-12-2004, 11:38 AM   #38
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ard-usat_x.htm
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Old 02-12-2004, 01:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine

I don't think a National Guardsman would be allowed time off to campaign for a buddy during this time of war. "Oh by the way I can't go to Iraq, I need time off" Would it be so easy then? [/B]
Actually, again that is wrong. There were quite a few members of my unit during the 1st Gulf War that were alowed to not be activated. They requested that they not be activated for specific reasons, and the unit commander approved their orders.

A lot depends on your mission and at what point in the war things are occuring. The same commander had me arresting people who were AWOL.

But what do I know....I obviously have no knowledge of the reserves.

Goes to polish my medals.
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Old 02-12-2004, 02:09 PM   #40
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I wasn't implying you have no knowledge of the reserves. I haven't heard of any delayed or non-activations except in extreme cases, such as family illness or extreme hardship. That is a little different than my daddy's buddy needs a gopher.

I still believet there are more questions than answers.

And I have no knowledge of the military, being a third generation military brat.
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Old 02-12-2004, 04:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
But what do I know....I obviously have no knowledge of the reserves.

Goes to polish my medals.
I don't doubt you know more about the military than I know about my own bank account, but ...

Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
As this President and his Attorney General have been so fond of saying, innocent people have nothing to hide.

Right?

this remains the most entertaining and interesting comment in this thread
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Old 02-12-2004, 05:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Actually, again that is wrong. There were quite a few members of my unit during the 1st Gulf War that were alowed to not be activated. They requested that they not be activated for specific reasons, and the unit commander approved their orders.


Goes to polish my medals.

and 20 years from now, you will remember your conrads and they will remember you.

lend some polish to Kerry
a felllow brother in arms.
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Old 02-12-2004, 08:06 PM   #43
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Originally posted by deep



and 20 years from now, you will remember your conrads and they will remember you.

That is because we are all still a tight bunch....And I was good at playing darts and pool. Lots of free drinking when you were my partner.
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Old 02-12-2004, 09:01 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
I wasn't implying you have no knowledge of the reserves. I haven't heard of any delayed or non-activations except in extreme cases, such as family illness or extreme hardship. That is a little different than my daddy's buddy needs a gopher.

I still believet there are more questions than answers.

And I have no knowledge of the military, being a third generation military brat.
I watched people stay home during the Gulf War I not because of major hardships.....that I can testify to.
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Old 02-12-2004, 09:28 PM   #45
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I really don't care, but I do think it's ironic, and lame, that the democrats are making such a big deal out of Bush shirking out when the exalted and almighty Bill Clinton dodged the draft and did nothing. So they should drop it.

I must add, I don't blame anyone who did dodge the draft during the Viet Nam era. It was not a cause worth dying for, we shouldn't even have been there. But it reeks of hypocrisy when people who ran and supported a draft dodger are now suddenly trying to make it an issue that Bush didn't do enough. Yeah, they never brought it up when draft dodger Clinton ran against war hero George Bush Sr. Bringing up an issue only when it suits you at the time is so political it sucks
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