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Old 01-24-2004, 11:02 AM   #16
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That is, why is someone who comes from say, France or Sweden, originally, automatically an American by virtue of having white skin,

Could it be because they were


or denied the right to vote in the South until the 1960s?
or denied public accommodations?

I could go on and on,

I wonder about the environment in which some of you were raised.

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Old 01-24-2004, 11:06 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Popmartijn

BTW, I'd like you all to refer to me as being Dutch Dutch (although I only know my family lineage from the 1850's onwards, or so).

C ya!

It is an interesting debate, for ANY "race" I think and I'm not really sure what to think.

Take the above: we will consider Marty Dutch Dutch, but what does that make me? I'm 100% Dutch and I KNOW my family lineage is Dutch as far back as the 1600s, and yet, I'm just "white" "caucasian" or simply "American" b/c I'm not a citizen of the Netherlands and have never been there. But I was born with a Dutch name, raised in a Dutch community among an entirely Dutch family and though English is my first and only fluent language, we often communicate using certain old Dutch phrases that a lot of "Dutch" people in the Netherlands wouldn't understand. Am I wrong to consider myself Dutch?

So what makes us what we are? The color of our skin? Our citizenship? Language? Or our family lineage and how we were raised? I'm not sure....

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Old 01-27-2004, 09:40 PM   #18
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*thank you Angel Of Harlem* for warning U2LB #again# for his poisonous tone.

I just 'met' him first time, just before reading this theard, in the just closed thread U2 & Politx started on racism. U2&PX & Verte if you stop by here again, I'm so sorry you lived anywhere near KKK folks <shivers>!

Racism has been strong in The North as well. And still is. I'd have sited more speciffically [in there] several NYT's specialized surveys they did, which showed institutionalized racism is still alive & well in major areas of Black people's lives [jobs, housing, medicaltreatment] and of of course other people of color as well. We have Klan & neo-nazi White power types up here, too.

In fact [my] New York State was one of /if not the the last Northern State to abolish slavery [before the Civil War]

As for the sociology late 1800's stuff..... sorry i can't remeber who just posted that and on my public netcafe I usually can't bring up a second screen [ i could refer back to] !

I believe this 3 race movement was part of the Eugenics movement of America. which started to officially catagorize people as inferior using physcal differences as one major benchmark.

This stuff eventually made it's way over to Europe, particullarly Germany. It's unfortunately true that the Nazis got a good portion of their horrific views from this American Movement.

Was I horrified [as an American] when i found this out about ? 10 years ago!
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Old 01-27-2004, 10:33 PM   #19
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No prob dazzledbylight it shouldn't be much more of a problem in here now...lol

Interesting question LivLuv. I've wondered about this myself and noticed it is somewhat more common, or perhaps more noticeable in people who's ties are linked to older and at times not so older cultures which vary from the 'typical' western one. I'm not sure how to word this so as not to sound like I'm stereotyping because that's not the point I am trying to make at all, but if our roots are linked back to a certain culture (which coincidently also means a somewhat more physical difference) are we more likely to describe ourselves as that? Like a Chinese Australian. Australian means very little, but the aspect of a person's identity which links them to Chinese culture is worth mentioning because it is not so much related to how the average Australian lives? I'm half English, but would never call myself that because not only do I not see myself as this when asked, but because who cares about an English heritage? It's not *that* different to the Australian one today. Whereas a person who says to me "I'm Chinese Australian" indicates to me there is pride and attachment to their roots of the culture which is not so common place here, in that we don't live many of the aspects which make the Chinese culture what it is.
Insert any example, like African, Japanese, Maori, Aborignal, Indian etc and they're the ones which vary more than say English, American, Dutch even and so on. Is it culture?

Anyway, I'm getting way off track and probably rambling, I hope this makes sense though.
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Old 01-29-2004, 10:07 PM   #20
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styles of emotional differences

AoH- makes sense to me and seems you have a interesting observation.

I have found at times that in America in some places as least, where "WASPY" [white-anglo Protesten ?sp] behavoir is the norm, that is- usually keeping the emotions close and barely revealed, except in more extreme circumstances, that I am very stifled with that.

I was mostly raised around my first generation Greek big family, whose usually quite expressive style was NOT the general norm - especially 35 years ago. It's still not in many places in America.

In fact Ifound the expressive style of many Black Americans [exccept for those who adopted/absorbed the WASP behavior surounding them], much more comfortable to be around. As too, the Irish & the Italians, <and probably middle easterners- if I'd known any when i was in my younger years>.
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Old 01-31-2004, 12:49 AM   #21
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Re: ...

Originally posted by U2LipstickBoy

I like to ask these so called African-Americans what it's like swimming in Lake Malawi or crossing the Nawib Desert or what it's like to wake up in your bed in the morning with a Goliath beetle in your bed. And once again, 99% of these self-proclaimed African-Americans stare at me and are perplexed, that is when I know that I'm looking at an American who wants something for free, not an African-American.
just because they don't share the exact same experiences as every single person living on the continent of africa doesn't mean they are not african. when was the last time you went dog sledding in alaska, and swimming in the pacific, and fishing in the midwest and sailing in the atlantic? what's that? you haven't? well surely you can't call yourself american then!

Originally posted by U2LipstickBoy
What I usually like to do when I encounter one of these people in society, I like to question them about Africa, and have them name to me at least 5 countries out of the 52 countries in Africa.
okay then, name five other countries in north america. i bet you the majority of americans can't. hell, the majority of americans might be vaguely familiar with mexico and canada, but beyond that, good luck.

Originally posted by U2LipstickBoy
then I send them on their way.
right... that doesn't sound like a lie. not at all.
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:36 PM   #22
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For what its worth..I'm Cherokee. Rez born card carrying casino check cashing American Indian.

When we (people now known as American Indians) were the only ones here, this place was not known as America.

After it was named America as far as I'm concerned..anyone born here is a "Native American'

Native American is such a Euro-centric term but I won't get mad if you use it. I prefer American Indian. I know that's also a misnomer but I'm used to it.

For what its worth, the weekly paper my dad gets from the rez uses both terms.

Is Dave Matthews an "African-American' ?

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