When Does Comedy Go Too Far?

[MrsSpringsteen]

I've been reading quite a bit about Sarah Silverman lately and her movie, I guess her whole "schtick" is to be as outrageous as possible (not just about 9/11 but about many other subjects)..but who would find any humor in this? Where do you draw the line? Like it says in that article most comedians still view Sept 11th as a taboo subject -yet as the writer states, the First Amendment allows people that freedom.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=114407&format=text

"For comedian Sarah Silverman, Sept. 11, 2001, the worst day in this country’s history, could be twisted into a business coup for American Airlines.

If only the company would use her suggested slogan: “American Airlines: First Through the Towers.”

After all, 9-11 was “devastating” for the New Hampshire-born comic. But not because of the murders of the 2,986 people who died that terrible day.

In the movie “Sarah Silverman: Jesus is Magic” the 34-year-old jokester quips in the big-screen version of her one-woman show that it was doubly tragic “because it happened to be the exact same day I found out that a soy chai latte was, like, 900 calories.”

 

[U2democrat]

Yeah...not funny...

 

[AchtungBono]

More and more I'm coming to realize that Americans really need to change the first amendment.

I don't think trivializing the most tragic day in American history (and the death of thousands of people) is what the founding fathers meant by free speach.

In fact, I think the Americans should re-read the entire constitution and adapt it more to today's world and circumstances rather than the 1700's when the worst thing Americans had to deal with was a high tax on tea......

As for the subject, unfortunately there isn't anything to be done about it under the first amendment. She has a right to say what she wants - as inflammatory as her statements are.

 

[U2democrat]

I have to disagree there...I would not want that right taken away. She can say whatever the hell she wants, no matter how stupid. It's a great right to have.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

she jokes about rape too..also I read in another article that she jokes about AIDS and the Holocaust

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pagesix/200...CnLO96sZkYC;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Q: Is there any topic you won't go near in your comedy?

A: I don't think people should make fun of Jews. My people have been through a lot. No, I'm kidding. I can only use my very distorted personal gauge of what's funny, but if it's funny enough, I don't think anything's off limits.

Q: When you're writing, is whether it will confound mainstream sensibilities a barometer for whether to go with a joke?

A: No. Not at all. I'm not setting out to offend anyone, truly I'm not, but you just have to accept that people are watching you in the context of their own lives and experience and not cater to that.

 

[U2democrat]

Well we all have our own individual senses of humor and what we think is funny...hers is just twisted. I don't know what her motives are, could she be saying this for the attention? To push buttons? Or does she genuinely find it funny and doesn't care whether or not she gets attention? I dunno

 

[edgeboy]

She uses topics like this because she's not funny.

 

[AchtungBono]

I have to disagree there...I would not want that right taken away. She can say whatever the hell she wants, no matter how stupid. It's a great right to have.

I'm sorry if I implied that the first amendment should be taken away - thats not what I meant.

Granted, free speach is the fundamental right of any free society HOWEVER I do believe that certain limitations can be applied in certain circumstances....like this one.

 

[kobayashi]

It is tough to craft a limitation, as you suggest AB, that would capture this incidence of poor taste and not other more substantive, if not controversial, comments.

As for why she does it...

She may or may not find it funny but surely there are some others who do. Because of that, her 'business model', for I feel that is really the way she is operating, will reap nice rewards in the short term as she 'shocks' us.

 

[daygloeyes2]

I'm not easily offended, but I think Sarah Silverman goes too far. It's one thing to be edgy, but quite another to be joking about a national tragedy. I read that one joke she said was something along the lines of American Airline's new slogan should be 1st through the towers.

 

[nbcrusader]

The usual measuring stick is this: Comedy goes to far when it falls outside one's political framework.

The sad part is that many eat up this shock based humor. Just look at the success of Howard Stern (who some would consider mainstream today).

 

[Irvine511]

while i do find some of her bits offensive, i also think Sara Silverman is rather brilliant at what she does.

Slate has this to say about her:

[q] Silverman's work is a natural byproduct of the high-stakes game of contemporary American identity politics—the emotionally volatile generalizing about our moral right to generalize. But she's not just a critic of PC culture: She's a connoisseur. She handles the complex algorithms of taboo—who's allowed to joke about what, to whom, using what terminology—with instant precision: "Everybody blames the Jews for killing Christ, and then the Jews try to pass it off on the Romans. I'm one of the few people that believe it was the blacks." (The joke exposes not the ancient perfidy of any particular race but the absurdity of blaming entire races for anything.) Her best jokes are thought experiments in the internal logic of political correctness: "I want to get an abortion, but my boyfriend and I are having trouble conceiving." A Playboy interviewer, probing for something salacious, once asked Silverman if she had a nickname for her vagina. She answered "Faggot"—a throwaway joke that manages to kink sexual identity into such an ingenious pretzel it could fuel a doctoral dissertation.

Silverman began her career as an immediately discarded Saturday Night Live writer, fired after a year or so for her controversial jokes ("Quite frankly, I think it's a good law," she wrote about a mandatory 24-hour waiting period for abortions. "I was going to get an abortion the other day. I totally wanted an abortion—and it turns out I was just thirsty.")

[...]

Through her stand-up, however, Silverman has become an important member of a guerrilla vanguard in the culture wars that we might call the "meta-bigots"—other members include the South Park kids, Sacha Baron Cohen's "Ali G", and the now-AWOL Dave Chappelle. The meta-bigots work at social problems indirectly; instead of discussing race, rape, abortion, incest, or mass starvation, they parody our discussions of them. They manipulate stereotypes about stereotypes. It's a dangerous game: If you're humorless, distracted, or even just inordinately history-conscious, meta-bigotry can look suspiciously like actual bigotry.

Silverman is particularly vulnerable to such confusion because, unlike other meta-bigots, she doesn't insulate herself with fictional characters: Her persona—an incestuous, genital-obsessed, racist narcissist—looks and sounds exactly like Silverman herself. She delivers even the most taboo punch lines with almost pathological sincerity. It looks like her face isn't in on her own jokes: Her nostrils flare, her mouth cocks meaningfully to one side, her teeth (of which there seem to be a few extra) hide and reveal themselves in strategically earnest formations. It's like a Juilliard exercise; you'd need stop-motion film to track all of her expressions. Deadpan is nothing new, of course, but Silverman's deadpan is extra dead: She stretches the distance between delivery and message almost as far as it will go. While she neutralizes mass death with self-help wordplay ("When God gives you AIDS, make lemon-AIDS!") or relinks the historically unfunny tandem of sexual assault and anti-Semitism ("I was raped by a doctor, which is a bittersweet experience for a Jewish girl"), her body language suggests she's just a concerned citizen talking about property taxes at a city council meeting.

"I don't care if you think I'm racist," Silverman says in her act. "I just want you to think I'm thin."

http://www.slate.com/id/2130006/

[/q]

 

[stammer476]

This thread exists for the exact reason she tells these kinds of jokes. If she didn't, we never would have heard of her, and she would not have a career.

 

[WinnieThePoo]

If only the company would use her suggested slogan: “American Airlines: First Through the Towers

ironic

 

[Golightly Grrl]

Sarah Silverman is about as funny as a stroke. Give me Margaret Cho anyday.

 

[Irvine511]

This thread exists for the exact reason she tells these kinds of jokes. If she didn't, we never would have heard of her, and she would not have a career.

while i fully understand that people can and will be offended by her jokes, i do think we're underestimating her if we think she's only about shock value.

i do come at this from a different perspective than most, though. i work in media, and even in college i have always found comedy fascinating -- not slapstick comedy, but more how humor works, what it tells us about us and how it reveals the unspoken social conventions and expectations we all submit to without ever giving it much thought.

so i find her very interesting. i also find the Christopher Guest comedies fascinating, as well as Ricky Gervais, Sandra Bernhardt, South Park, etc.

there is a saying in entertainment -- drama is easy, comedy is hard.

 

[Irvine511]

Sarah Silverman is about as funny as a stroke. Give me Margaret Cho anyday.

Cho can be an absolute scream, i agree.

 

[indra]

More and more I'm coming to realize that Americans really need to change the first amendment.

Uh. No.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So is she trying to make social commentary of some sort or just trying to be outrageous for the sake of doing so? In saying things like this is she trying to get bigoted people to see themselves in it? I don't think that works, or that most people will see that as the purpose

"The best time to have a baby is when you're a black teenager"

"I sent 15 really fun cowl-neck sweaters to this village in Africa, and [they] sent me a postcard thanking me . . . and said they were delicious''

She is supposed to be a comedian and not a satirist or commentator, isn't she? I just can't laugh at things like that ^, or at those sick 9/11 jokes. I like intelligent comedy that isn't mean spirited. I don't believe she is even mean spirited or that she believes any of her own "jokes" but it can be seen that way. I wonder if this has always been her style or if she developed it in order to stand out in the crowd of comedians.

 

[anitram]

I think that those people who enjoy her brand of 'jokes' will go and see her and those who don't probably never will. IMO, she's not inciting violence or advocating hate against specific groups, it's just that her 'jokes' are either tasteless or borderline tasteless depending on your read of it.

So I don't see any reason why she can't carry on the way she wants to. I wouldn't pay to see her, that's for sure, but there isn't anything about her which I find so outrageously offensive that I think you should go as far as altering the freedom of speech amendment, as has been suggested here.

 

[stammer476]

i also find the Christopher Guest comedies fascinating

Waiting For Guffman

Having spent a year pastoring in a small Missouri town less than 15 miles from the "real" town of Blaine, this movie is pure genius.

 

[deep]

and yes, Guffman is genius

i don't think I will see the movie


but, I did see her in that other movie

"the aristocrats" and did find her a bit intriguing

there is a lot of offensive humor (to some people) out there

she should not be singled out


her thing is being a pretty little Jewish girl saying completely shocking and outrageous things



the "Jesus is magic"

is a good way to explain all those miracles

if it is not for you

just don't go

 

[Irvine511]

So is she trying to make social commentary of some sort or just trying to be outrageous for the sake of doing so? In saying things like this is she trying to get bigoted people to see themselves in it? I don't think that works, or that most people will see that as the purpose

"The best time to have a baby is when you're a black teenager"

"I sent 15 really fun cowl-neck sweaters to this village in Africa, and [they] sent me a postcard thanking me . . . and said they were delicious''

She is supposed to be a comedian and not a satirist or commentator, isn't she? I just can't laugh at things like that ^, or at those sick 9/11 jokes. I like intelligent comedy that isn't mean spirited. I don't believe she is even mean spirited or that she believes any of her own "jokes" but it can be seen that way. I wonder if this has always been her style or if she developed it in order to stand out in the crowd of comedians.

at the end of the day, it comes down to taste. if it's not to your taste, then that's that. you have nothing to apologize for or understand or "get" about her. she's not for everybody, and i think she would be the first to admit that.

for me, i find her much more interesting than, say, Howard Stern, but that again comes down to taste.

 

[DrTeeth]

Re: and yes, Guffman is genius

Sheyne meydel!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't mean to "single her out", I might rent that when it comes out on DVD just out of curiosity. I think perhaps she's a "novelty" because she's a very attractive woman saying things like that, of course comedy tends to be a male dominated field. Who would be her male equivalent?

I don't think jokes like that about 9/11 or about rape, or the Holocaust, are humorous in any way, but I do still have a sense of humor

I have never heard Howard Stern make that kind of joke about September 11th, I find some things he says funny but others just completely distasteful.

 

[Dismantled]

I have to disagree there...I would not want that right taken away. She can say whatever the hell she wants, no matter how stupid. It's a great right to have.

I agree taking away rights is a step in the wrong direction....

but we should make amenment to be able to kick the crap outta people who make horrible jokes about that stuff

I kid I kid........



or do I

 

[stammer476]

while i fully understand that people can and will be offended by her jokes, i do think we're underestimating her if we think she's only about shock value.

Agreed. But while she may have more and better comedy than just what shocks us, but it is worth noting that such comedy is not why this thread was started or why most of us have heard of her. It's just a sad downside to our culture that performers know that they can get more publicity out of saying what offends over saying what is right.

And ironically, to protest or loudly disagree with that which offends usually makes the situation worse (i.e. more publicity). With people like her, it's better to just ignore it.

 

[Irvine511]

Agreed. But while she may have more and better comedy than just what shocks us, but it is worth noting that such comedy is not why this thread was started or why most of us have heard of her. It's just a sad downside to our culture that performers know that they can get more publicity out of saying what offends over saying what is right.

And ironically, to protest or loudly disagree with that which offends usually makes the situation worse (i.e. more publicity). With people like her, it's better to just ignore it.

is it her fault that her most shocking jokes are what makes the news?

to be totally honest, i actually think she's very, very subversive, and while, in theory, jokes about 9-11 and the Holocaust and rape are not funny, per say, she's not making jokes about what happened on 9-11 and more about how we respond to such events and how we are supposed to speak about such things -- she's tipping over the apple cart of propriety, and fashioning a commentary not on the event but on how we understand and remember the event, what we can say and what we cannot say, etc. i'd point to the excerpts from the Salon article that explicate what she is doing.

i remember watching her on Politically Incorrect once, and what i found shocking was not her language but her utter composure in the face of criticism. she was being taken to task by an Asian professor for her use of the word "chink" in one of her monologues on Conan O'Brien. she tried to explain what she was doing, but stayed in character the whole time, saying, "but i love chinks, it's just that there are some people who don't, and i really wanted to get out of Jury Duty." or something to that extent. this drove the professor crazy, with good reason, and he really tore into her, and explicated exactly what happens when we use racial slurs, how it degrades human beings into something less than human, etc. and he was right. his comments were accurate, but he was (i thought) missing the point of why she was using racial slurs.

she then got a little ticked off and turned to the professor, and i remember this exactly, and said, "listen, i have only met 2 Asian people in my life who i didn't like. one of them is you, and the other one was little Tommy Tran who actually did go pee-pee in my Coke."

there was shocked silence, and then Bill Maher cut to a commercial because no one knew what to do.

it was offensive, yet brilliant. and i understand both what she's trying to do, and the legitimate offense taken at her humor.

i will probably see her movie because i actually do think she's doing interesting work. offensive, yes, but still interesting, and like South Park, i am always interested in anyone who takes a cannon to propriety not because i want to see anyone's feelings hurt (heck, i'm well aware of how awful slurs can be, though his gay boy thinks that her naming her vagina "faggot" is brilliant), but because i think she's unpacking how we think about what we can and cannot say.

 

[Numb1075]

I'm not a fan of 9/11 jokes.

she can say what she wants, doesn't mean I have to laugh

 

[Irvine511]

I'm not a fan of 9/11 jokes.

she can say what she wants, doesn't mean I have to laugh

absolutely.

i think she would agree with you as well.

(i don't want to come off as some sort of Sara Silverman apologist, i just think she's interesting is all)