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Old 07-12-2005, 09:29 PM   #16
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl

The same 'sins' in the bible are still sins even after the sacrifice was made, but they are covered for those who choose to accept god's mercy through his son
So if I'm Jewish, does that mean that I should go find the first adultress I see and drag her out of town and bash her head in with a large rock?

This 'Mosaic Law' bit makes a whole lot of crazy nonsense to me.
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:32 PM   #17
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I wouldnt reccomend it insofar as that it would be murder
If I remember correctly in the bible there is something where Jesus said if any one of you is without sin cast the first stone when this girl was about to be stoned
All the people tossed their rock down and left and he helped her on her way...I probably just butchered that
So as a Christian I am called to live a life like jesus. If thats what he did then I take that to be what is expected of me as well
Let God deal with judgement and let me love my neighbor
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:34 PM   #18
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also I will add that christians believe Jesus was the messiah, and I think Jews still believe in upholding the old ways because jesus wasnt the messiah....
I really need to research things before I say them Im really just trying to help. honestly.

In the gospels of the bible it says not to be preoccupied with ritual and show, but to be occupied with weeding out the crap within you, and within your heart.
Not worrying about pork and stoning
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:03 PM   #19
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl
But one thing I will say is that the rituals, the sacrificial rituals and the like were thrown out the window because the "ultimate sacrifice" was made through Christ.
There's no Biblical evidence to support that only a portion of the Mosaic Law was thrown out and there's certainly no clear line as to what regards "ritual Mosaic Law" versus "non-ritual Mosaic Law." The Church of Jerusalem wanted to uphold the entire Mosaic Law, and the Church of Antioch wanted to throw it all away. Acts 15 made a rather obsolete compromise between the two at the Council of Jerusalem regarding maintaining Mosaic Law prohibitions against idolatry and eating idolatrous meat and threw in an easily mistranslated, obscure Greek word that no one can seem to agree on (some Protestant Bibles translate "porneia" as "fornication." Catholic Bibles translate it as "unlawful marriage"--that is, Levitical prohibitions against incestuous marriages). Even then, Paul, leader of the Church of Antioch, mocks the compromise in his epistles and, at one point, tells his followers to go ahead and eat meat offered to idols. That's because the compromise was never enforced and the two churches went at each other until the Church of Jerusalem was annihilated in the second century A.D.

If we are to go with our Church of Antioch Christian heritage, Mosaic Law is fully obsolete, as Jesus's death and resurrection deemed it null and void, in favor of His commandment, "Love one another."

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Old 07-12-2005, 11:01 PM   #20
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Dave, check this out
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=880
It might be helpful
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:18 PM   #21
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I don't have time to get into the whole thing but I wanted to make a couple references to some of the Leviticus stuff.....the one about tattooing was actually in reference to a non Jewish religious sect that would ritually slash themselves, a strange way to try and get their god's attention I know, but translation and study of the Hebrew words has shown the original word refers to that (as in cutting) rather than the artistic expression we know of as tattooing today. In other words, this was written in Leviticus simply because it was a practice belonging to another religous group...I can provide more Biblical quotes later if need be. Also, strange dietary things, like boiling a goat in it's mother's milk, also another religious groups ritual. Some of these Levitical laws were to dissuade the use of other religious practices from 'false gods'.
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:45 PM   #22
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But above all, a theme of the new testament in the bible is salvation, not through works but through grace.
Which means you will never be good enough on your own.
That was the original purpose of mosaic law. God didnt want to enstate it, the people wanted it.
It was to point out to the people the overwhelming impossiblility of ever being good enough to save themselves.
And to point them in the direction of God in turn
the abolishment of the old, temporary covenant doesnt allow christians to just to whatever they want because of not being under the law anymore.
It means we're free of having to live slave to sin.
Which actually means that we should be showing improvement in character, not decline.
And our works and actions wont make us any better in God's eyes, it wont get us that much closer to heaven. It is given to the christian when the accept Gods gift of grace.

I hope even one sentence of that made sense
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
I don't have time to get into the whole thing but I wanted to make a couple references to some of the Leviticus stuff.....the one about tattooing was actually in reference to a non Jewish religious sect that would ritually slash themselves, a strange way to try and get their god's attention I know, but translation and study of the Hebrew words has shown the original word refers to that (as in cutting) rather than the artistic expression we know of as tattooing today. In other words, this was written in Leviticus simply because it was a practice belonging to another religous group...I can provide more Biblical quotes later if need be. Also, strange dietary things, like boiling a goat in it's mother's milk, also another religious groups ritual. Some of these Levitical laws were to dissuade the use of other religious practices from 'false gods'.
But the laws still come from God himself, supposedly. So should we still not be following them regardless if it's what He told us to do?

Isn't picking and choosing between laws similar to a cop saying "oh, i'll be especially hard on people who don't come to a complete stop at stop signs today, but murderers can run free. Maybe I'll go after the credit card frauds tomorrow, but today they can go ahead and knock themselves out."?

Maybe I'm just not getting it.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:20 AM   #24
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Yes, but dave, what do you care if you dont put yourself under that law?
Are you concerned that youre doing something wrong? Or that somebody else is?
Like I said, the rules were enstated by God as a temporary thing to show the people that they needed a savior.
Once that savior came they didnt need the sacrifices anymore to atone for their sins.
And now we are called to love one another, not nitpick ourselves over rules
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:42 PM   #25
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I'm not concerned about my own behavior.

I'm concerned about people picking and choosing between rules, totally illogically, to justify hate against other human beings (human beings who, last I checked, were loved equally and unconditionally by the same God).

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Old 07-13-2005, 02:08 PM   #26
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But that has nothing to do with religion. It has nothing to do with real faith or anything.
It has to do with peoples hearts.
rationalizing doctrine wont get you anywhere if thats what youre looking to try and understand.
People will use anything they can to justify their actions.
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
I'm not concerned about my own behavior.

I'm concerned about people picking and choosing between rules, totally illogically, to justify hate against other human beings (human beings who, last I checked, were loved equally and unconditionally by the same God).

Well, to their credit, they aren't ONLY citing lines from Leviticus. I believe they often tend to cite lines from Genesis and the New Testament as well.

I don't personally think that homosexuality is bad, but just to show that their argument isn't merely going on a few lines from Leviticus. If it were that simple, I don't think the argument against homosexuality would still be going nearly as strong. I think it really comes down to peoples' stances on the infallibility of the Bible. If you think every point in the Bible is God-given truth, and there is more than one line in the Bible that seems to be against homosexuality, you'll probably be of the opinion that homosexuality is sinful as well.

Personally though, I just can't justify homosexuality being sinful in my mind. Just using logic, I don't really see how that could be. And since I try to stay fairly close with my religion, it's posed somewhat of a problem for me. Oh well.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:12 PM   #28
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I didnt know dave was directly referencing homosexuality


Personally, as a christian, I probably have less of a problem with it than a lot of people I know.
But with certain aspects of my upbringing I was around it frequently and developed a tolerant attitude that other christians around me dont have.
I think using the bible to discourage gay marriage outside of the church is stupid.
If the church doesnt have to be involved in marrying them, and its just a civil ceremony then cant they just step out of it?
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:18 PM   #29
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I'm a Christian and have no problem with homosexuals.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:19 PM   #30
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breaking news:
not all christians are hate filled
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