What would you look for in a church?

[Landslide]

Well, actually, Paul would refer to you as a "saint".

As would God.
It is my belief that I AM called to be a saint.

What I feel I must acknowledge first is that I am a sinner, as Paul acknowledged for himself so many times. And the only bottom-line way I can attain salvation is acceptance of God's grace (Romans 5. I love it!!).
I take great comfort in the writings and the life of Paul, for if anyone should have burned in hell, if it was up to human "justice", it would have been a mass murderer of Christians... in the name of God.


Clinton moment: What is "is".
What is a saint?

I prescribe to that Christian song that sings "Saints are sinners who fall down, and get up.... fall down and get up..."

btw, JT is Best... for me.

 

[verte76]

As for being called to be a saint, sometimes Catholics also use the word "saint" in this sense of the word, as opposed to someone who's been canonized. Mother Angelica, the founder of EWTN, uses it all the time. I admit that my first reaction to this was "Are you nuts? Do you know how many sins I commit?" But really, the saint and the sinner are the same person.

 

[Landslide]

Personally, I prefer a more traditional worship style and a focus on the church as a community rather than so much focus on the actual church services. /B]

Almost missed ya.
Just curious, what church do you attend?

 

[Landslide]

As for being called to be a saint, sometimes Catholics also use the word "saint" in this sense of the word, as opposed to someone who's been canonized. Mother Angelica, the founder of EWTN, uses it all the time. I admit that my first reaction to this was "Are you nuts? Do you know how many sins I commit?" But really, the saint and the sinner are the same person.

Hey Verte!
Nice artwork! Good eye there.
btw, the saint reference I learned from the priest I referred to earlier in his discussion of Vatican II and what came out of it all (like the idea that we are all called to be saints... No "Holy Cast").
Click on that website with his interview, will ya. I'd love to know another Catholics opinion of this man.

 

[Landslide]

As I've said here before, I'm one of the pastors at a church here in the Detroit area.

Me again! (Man, I need a job!... Oh wait, I have one... Man, I need some work to do...)

Stammer, Hi.
I don't know your story. Mind telling me a bit about it?

I see by your screenname pic, you may not be too keen on the Pope, or Catholicism, or men with big pointy hats judging fallen angels (is that not a still from R.E.M.s "Losing My Religion"????).

I'm not too big on Rome, either ya know.

 

[verte76]

Hey Verte!
Nice artwork! Good eye there.
btw, the saint reference I learned from the priest I referred to earlier in his discussion of Vatican II and what came out of it all (like the idea that we are all called to be saints... No "Holy Cast").
Click on that website with his interview, will ya. I'd love to know another Catholics opinion of this man.

I can't find the blasted link, could you re-post it? Thanks in advance.

 

[Landslide]

I can't find the blasted link, could you re-post it? Thanks in advance.

www.uscatholic.org/2002/08/featd0208.htm

 

[80sU2isBest]

As would God.
It is my belief that I AM called to be a saint.

What I feel I must acknowledge first is that I am a sinner, as Paul acknowledged for himself so many times. And the only bottom-line way I can attain salvation is acceptance of God's grace (Romans 5. I love it!!).
I take great comfort in the writings and the life of Paul, for if anyone should have burned in hell, if it was up to human "justice", it would have been a mass murderer of Christians... in the name of God.


Clinton moment: What is "is".
What is a saint?

I prescribe to that Christian song that sings "Saints are sinners who fall down, and get up.... fall down and get up..."

btw, JT is Best... for me.

My belief is that by God's identification of us, Christians are "saints". We are perfectly clean, since the blood of Christ washes away all sin. God has crucified the sin nature and in its place has given a us a new nature. Thats what being "born again" is, a complete regeneration of the spirit. Our spirits are perfectly clean, and that is how are admitted into God's presence.

By practice of the imperfect flesh, however, I would say it would be accurate to call us "sinners", since we do sin.

 

[Landslide]

My belief is that by God's identification of us, Christians are "saints".

In my opinion, yes and no.
I am saved by the blood of the Lamb, but am I a saint?
What I mean by my being "called to be a saint", is that I believe God would like to see me live my life fully as a Christian. To multiply the talents He has given me, and not bury them until He returns for them. To not hide the lamp under a bushel basket. To see Jesus in the face of the beggar and the prisoner. To try... TRY to be "holy".
It's not only for Mother Teresa, Ghandi, MLK, Billy Graham and ... Bono (????) to follow this path ONLY, but for me too.



"... and I must be an acrobat to talk like this and act like that..."

 

[verte76]

Hey, Landslide, checked out the interview. I absolutely love what he said. I really admire Jesuits. In fact, a Jesuit had a heck of alot to do with my conversion to Catholicism. I was raised as a Protestant, and God made me a little different, so I converted.

 

[Landslide]

Hey, Landslide, checked out the interview. I absolutely love what he said. I really admire Jesuits. In fact, a Jesuit had a heck of alot to do with my conversion to Catholicism. I was raised as a Protestant, and God made me a little different, so I converted.

Well, I'm glad Verte. He actually spoke at a Men's conference I attended at my church some 5 years ago and he really changed my life... well, better put, he enhanced my faith... OR better put, God worked through him to get me closer to ... God.

Anyway, It was fun hangin out here and there but I gotta go. This forum thing IS indeed addicting to me, and my big fat ego does not need this ... again.

80sU2isBest... Trash Can says "hey! Nice to "see" ya again, and God Bless!!" ... that being that I am TC.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Well, I'm glad Verte. He actually spoke at a Men's conference I attended at my church some 5 years ago and he really changed my life... well, better put, he enhanced my faith... OR better put, God worked through him to get me closer to ... God.

Anyway, It was fun hangin out here and there but I gotta go. This forum thing IS indeed addicting to me, and my big fat ego does not need this ... again.

80sU2isBest... Trash Can says "hey! Nice to "see" ya again, and God Bless!!" ... that being that I am TC.

Hey trash, it's GREAT to see you!

It's been a long time, buddy!

 

[Axver]

What would I look for in a church?

A solid dose of reality, even if it's a very cold, hard dose. I want to be told that my Christian duty is not to just rock up to church on Sunday morning and give intellectual consent to what's being sung and said. I want to be made to feel called to do more, to act on my faith, to actually crucify my self and follow Christ. In other words, I don't want a wishy-washy church, or a comfortable middle-class church, but one that lives the Christian faith. Intelligently, too - deep theology may not always be appropriate on Sunday morning, but some other easily accessible option should be available for those who not only want meat, but a lot of it. Preferably involving a diversity: something that's willing to objectively discuss, consider, and contemplate everyone from St. Augustine to Søren Kierkegaard to John Calvin to G. K. Chesterton.

Two pedantical things I'd like to find in a church but probably never will:
- A very welcoming atmosphere for those who are rather shy. Bear in mind I'm very strict in saying that, as I have bordered on sociophobia before. What makes going to church really hard for me is that religion is an extremely personal part of my life and I don't feel comfortable practising it in the company of strangers, even really friendly ones. I want to feel like I'm actually with friends. If I had my way, church would be a small group of about the 20 people with whom I feel the most at ease.
- The music. I place a lot of value in worship, especially as I have often used it in the past to worship in private, but when I go to church, I'm always disappointed by the songs. So many of them are modern flaky songs that are blindly optimistic. Praise is fantastic, but it should not be ignorant of reality. Now, again personally, I would love a church if it ripped out Until The End Of The World or Yahweh - my non-U2 suggestions probably wouldn't go down well in any church (find me a church that's willing to play Porcupine Tree's Halo and I will faint from shock). But if I can't have something like that, I'd love some of the old hymns and such, or at least something of great substance. I want to feel like I'm hearing music of worth that allows me to connect with God.

I was going to write more - and I was going to write what I said just better - but I've just got back from work and it's bloody horrible so I simply don't feel up to it. Sorry.

 

[the rockin edge]

The one thing I can think of right now is being accepting of ALL people and not condemning them all the time, it's very off-putting and a reason I think why alot of people stay away from churches.

just my thought

Praise is fantastic, but it should not be ignorant of reality. Now, again personally, I would love a church if it ripped out Until The End Of The World or Yahweh -

don't forget wake up dead man

 

[verte76]

Good point about shy people. I'm *very* shy. The fact that some people who want a worship and fellowship experience are very shy should definitely be taken into consideration.

 

[U2DMfan]

I don't understand the neccesity of church.
Honestly. Is it for those who can't formulate opinions and establish beliefs on their own, or is it actually important to one's relationship with God?

I see a disconnect between realtionships with God and realtionships with an old grey haired man at a podium telling me his version of what God means.

I am very cynical about organized religion and organized church.
I'd like to know how to tell a good church from a bad one without having to invest time and money doing so. I don't beleive in God or Jesus as a corporation. I see, in my part of the world nothing but hellfire and brimstone, and a courting of the masses.
Do they want the masses to preach God's word to, or do they want the masses so they can pay their mortgage on a home that is much nicer than anything I will ever own. So much hypocrisy, I personally have a hard time reconciling it. Just one example of hundreds.

My question is, what good is the church in terms of an individual understanding and relationship with God?
As opposed to my 75 year old grandmother who just prays and is blind and hasnt been to a "church" in a decade.
Does she have a disconnect? I dont think so.

 

[nbcrusader]

I don't understand the neccesity of church.
Honestly. Is it for those who can't formulate opinions and establish beliefs on their own, or is it actually important to one's relationship with God?

Think of it like school. We learn better with others, when we can share our experiences and hear how others have lived life.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Think of it like school. We learn better with others, when we can share our experiences and hear how others have lived life.

Excellent.