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Old 08-31-2005, 09:49 AM   #1
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What would you do?

Okay, many of you havebeen so quick to criticize the current administration for there mishandleing of Iraq and labeling it "illegal" or Immoral. My question is this: By some freak of nature, you become the newly installed President of the United States. What is your plan for Iraq? Keep your editorial rants out of this post and give me some concrete answers please.
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:44 AM   #2
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It's really hard to say. We aren't privy to all the information. We are already there so we need to establish a plan to train Iraq to take care of itself as quickly as possible. Personally I think we're staying there as long as we can to keep an "eye" out for Iran. We have many experts in the military saying we have far too many troops over there and others saying we don't have enough. Will insurgents continue to attack they way they are if they see US presence start to leave or will they continue to attack Iraq no matter what? It's hard to tell, all I know is it's a mess.
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Old 09-01-2005, 05:06 AM   #3
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If I was elected President I would fire my PR team ~ they are totally incompetent.

I would comission a think tank on the issues of Iraq ~ not for bluster but to consolidate information and to develop some form of plan.

Adressing the training and security situation of Iraqi troops is a principle concern.

Exposing the blatant corruption of certain UN officials and member states that were doing oily deals with the regime while it was still under sanction, to highlight the state of sanctions pre-war.

Broadly speaking there are a few options for Iraq and they are all dependent on security. If the elections in november go off without a hitch and there is a show of confidence in the political system then I think that a net withdrawl of troops (remembering that there would be an increase prior to elections) could be in order if the security situation allowed. This would not be a victory for terrorism, it would be a victory for democracy and the people of Iraq, instilling confidence on both sides that may hopefully deliver a boost in morale in both countries.

There will be terrorism in Iraq for years to come, a democratically elected and moderate government that can be held to account by the people is a dangerous thing for stability in the region, it's poison for the Royal Houses, the autocrats and Mullahs. An element of this terrorism is a result of this, focusing on the support given to terrorist groups within Iraq by neighbours is important ~ giving active support and notice to the cause of peaceful democrats around the Arab world, not backing violent guerillas (wiith some compromise on that point ~ ends justifying the means in some situations). Getting US troops out of the country without leaving the Iraqi government in a position to be collapsed is the goal. Getting it done completely before 2010 is the time-frame. The US will not defeat the insurgency; you have lot of targets a road trip away for every two bit jihadist prick ~ they will just keep coming. Iraqi troops however supporting an Iraqi government can defeat the insurgency ~ if they do not become a tool of opression.

Anyhow enabling an internal political process, removing US troops from the role of patroling the streets. The less that US troops are moving targets the better. Attacks against Iraqi's is not winning broad support for the insurgency ~ the forces of Baathist Fascism and Religious Fanatacism are not competing politically. They are marginalised.

Now the big issue is the role of Islam in the new government. Here is where it gets messy. We cannot see a pluralist secular liberal democracy popup overnight ~ that is where neoconservative model has miscalculated, the cultural importance of Islam is to high; the paradigms of Eastern Europe do not fit. Now given this the question becomes what role does it have. If I was a power broker I think that acheiving a state where all citizens have political and religious freedoms enshrined in a bill of rights, where there is true seperation of the powers would be a buffer against despotic religious governance. I would not approve one bit if Sharia come to Iraq ~ but one hopes that with newfound democratic rights if it was ever put to the poles women could protect themselves. Anyhow back on target I think that Islam would be detrimental ~ the retrograde force on humanity that is religion should ideally have no place in the politcal system. But if it was there we would probably see sodomy laws and soft religious laws for a while ~ but in the long term if given democracy and liberty can a society grow? with consensual government and the emergence of national identity can tribal and religious bonds gell, could in years to come we see the emergence of a more progressive Arab State? I certainly hope so.

If Iraq fails I truly fear the ramifications; it is not Vietnam, there is no shabby domino theory here just a fuckload of opressive states with a bucnh of religious fanatics with a true will to power ~ failure in Iraq may guarantee the realisation of the caliphate through concequence; and that would not be good for the world.

Getting the oil price down may be the key to getting such a plan operating. Casualties are relatively low, the cost of oil however is something that everybody feels. So maybe I would sanction some covert discrediting of Hugo Chavez; killing him would only make him a damn martyr now. Figure out how the blackmail Russia to take the heat off it's oligarchs.
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Old 09-01-2005, 04:51 PM   #4
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Its a little late to ask that question now. if I had been President, I wouldn´t have gone in Iraq in the first place but listened to the 100,000s of protestors that were against.

Now that the military is in and hundreds of soldiers got killed, and thousands of civil persons..

its not gonna get any better, so if I didn´t have too many friends in the oil business, I guess I would

save the soldiers who would lose their lives if I continued the war; get them back to Homebase

ask the CIA to work with a democratically elected Iraqi government to create a new Iraq national secret service who will be responsible to chase out the terrorists; ask for cooperation between secret services

try initiate a roundtable between different Iraqi groups with different interests, under independent supervision by diplomacy

direct all the money I would have spent for the ongoing war to rebuild Iraq - means, give it to Iraqi companies who can build up whats destroyed, not to Anmerican or European companies to make a profit by rebuilding - in some cases cooperation will be necessary and international help needed;

keep an eye on the situation in Israel and the extremists quiet
promote a Palestine state

look for new energy from somewhere else as soon as possible, as soon as this is a safe bet, cancel all the contracts with all Arab nations for any oil business - it will hurt them financially but the market there is too insecure anyway

fire Condi and kick Rumsfeld and Cheney out of whatever positions they have

throw Robertson into jail, invite Chavez and hope for cooperation in the future

give the rest of the money I have used to finance the war to NGOs, Red Cross, Medcines Sans Frontieres etc. who shall go to Iraq to help the people there; for their security I would make a deal with any Muslim nation who wants to help me by sending in some safety troops

install a commission that will find out what was wrong with the nuclear weapons lie, who planned it, executed it, if the President was involved in that fake etc.

tell Blair he can call his soldiers back, same for Berlusconi, thank them for their efforts

make a public speech about how sorry I am that the Prez before me has his share in messing the world up

say sorry to the UN organizations and deal more respectfully with intl bodies in the future, pay the money the US owes the UN

let the Iraqis develop & build up their own nation- they have to decide whether they keep the current chaos or want a new, stable state

-for a start.
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Old 09-01-2005, 04:54 PM   #5
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A number of things - stop fighting a politically correct war, find the enemy, and don't give him an inch. Secondly, understand as the drafting of the Iraqi constitution takes place that they value their religion, but encourage free will of the people, basic human rights, and a stable society. Allow these people to know that democracy is not an enemy of their faith, but the freedom of choosing to believe in it. Thirdly, protect our own borders, as I strongly recommended in my other thread. If we should face terrorism abroad rather than at home, it couldn't make more sense to secure the borders.
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Old 09-01-2005, 05:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
A number of things - stop fighting a politically correct war, find the enemy, and don't give him an inch.
What exactly do you mean by a "politically correct war"?
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Old 09-01-2005, 05:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


What exactly do you mean by a "politically correct war"?
I think its some kind of weird liberal phrasing. There is no such thing as a politically correct war.
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:44 PM   #8
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Quote:


stop fighting a "politically correct war"?
i believe it is a conservative or neo-conservative statement

to stop worrying about collateral damage and make it intolerable for any Iraqis to do anything that even resembles supporting or sympathizing with insurgents.

similar to what Saddam did to keep the masses compliant
without the mass murder and public torture that gets bad press.
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:15 AM   #9
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It's all in the spin.
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
I think its some kind of weird liberal phrasing. There is no such thing as a politically correct war.
I think there IS. Instead of sending so many troops to get shot in the face, use air power. Follow the routes of Patton, who when found an armed guirrilla oppressor, shot him. A "weird liberal phrasing" is John Kerry's compassionately insane declaration to fight a "more sensative war."
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I think there IS. Instead of sending so many troops to get shot in the face, use air power. Follow the routes of Patton, who when found an armed guirrilla oppressor, shot him. A "weird liberal phrasing" is John Kerry's compassionately insane declaration to fight a "more sensative war."
By "air power" do you by any chance mean dropping bombs on the people of Iraq? How exactly is dropping a bomb from several thousand feet up going to be effective in targeting the specific individuals responsible for acts of violence in Iraq? Sure you might be able to kill the individual you're targeting (then again, you might not) but you'll also kill dozens of innocent people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
By "air power" do you by any chance mean dropping bombs on the people of Iraq? How exactly is dropping a bomb from several thousand feet up going to be effective in targeting the specific individuals responsible for acts of violence in Iraq? Sure you might be able to kill the individual you're targeting (then again, you might not) but you'll also kill dozens of innocent people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
By using it, I don't mean misusing it. Predator drones and other advanced spy sensors, according to Army War College professor Stephen Biddle "focused every available surveillance system on a tiny, 10-by-10-kilometer battlefield." Iraq couldn't counterattack our air strikes in Operation Desert Storm, so why so many troops on the ground forces? The bombs that are being dropped are laser-guided. The laser is pointed at the target, and the bomb's guidance system follows the reflected energy precisely to the impact point. A solution regarding the innocent, alert them and withhold the weapons until they are cleared away safely.
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
The bombs that are being dropped are laser-guided. The laser is pointed at the target, and the bomb's guidance system follows the reflected energy precisely to the impact point. A solution regarding the innocent, alert them and withhold the weapons until they are cleared away safely.
Laser-guided bombs go astray. They're not accurate enough to ensure that they won't kill dozens of innocent people.

And exactly how do you propose to alert the innocent without also alerting the guilty?
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:54 PM   #14
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I owuld have taken him out in 1990. They should not have stopped then.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
By using it, I don't mean misusing it. Predator drones and other advanced spy sensors, according to Army War College professor Stephen Biddle "focused every available surveillance system on a tiny, 10-by-10-kilometer battlefield." Iraq couldn't counterattack our air strikes in Operation Desert Storm, so why so many troops on the ground forces? The bombs that are being dropped are laser-guided. The laser is pointed at the target, and the bomb's guidance system follows the reflected energy precisely to the impact point. A solution regarding the innocent, alert them and withhold the weapons until they are cleared away safely.
during shock and awe

they dropped 500 bunker buster bombs
on what Rumsfeld and Co. believed was Saddam in hiding (how much collateral damage???)

you may remember early on
they even had a short-lived announcement that they had 'cut of the head of the snake'
i. e. taken Saddam out.

this smart bomb, laser guided bombs, is just a load of propaganda


And this idiot Rumfeld wants to have mini nukes at his disposal.
He should be locked up.
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