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Old 04-22-2005, 04:25 AM   #16
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There are parts to his letter that I think are well written and are worthy of a thumbs up.

There are parts that make me want to cry.
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Old 04-22-2005, 08:00 AM   #17
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I think its all a pseudo-intellectual masturbation over contemptible bigotry of the worst kind, really.

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Old 04-22-2005, 09:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i wonder if the the new Pope feels the same way about former Nazis?
so, it is true? that he was part of the Nazi Youth????? cuz that was what i heard about the new guy.

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Old 04-22-2005, 09:13 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Muggsy


so, it is true? that he was part of the Nazi Youth????? cuz that was what i heard about the new guy.



From Hitler Youth to the Vatican

Bavarian who deserted Wehrmacht was a liberal but turned to conservatism in face of 1968 student rebellions

Stephen Bates and John Hooper in Rome
Wednesday April 20, 2005
The Guardian

Joseph Ratzinger was not always considered a reactionary. Born in 1927 in Marktl am Inn, the first German pope for nearly 1,000 years comes from the country's traditionalist Catholic heartland, Bavaria.
His father was a police officer from a family of farmers whose career suffered because he refused to become a Nazi. The young Ratzinger served briefly and unenthusiastically with the Hitler Youth and later with a German army anti-aircraft unit guarding the BMW factory in Munich. He says he never fired a shot.

Ratzinger has defended himself from criticism of his war record by claiming - not strictly truthfully - that he could not have avoided military service in the circumstances. Others did and maybe he could have used his training in a seminary to dodge the call-up.

But there is no doubt that his heart was not in his military service and he deserted in April 1944, ending the war in an American prisoner of war camp.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story...463902,00.html
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:23 AM   #20
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You've got to wonder if a 78 year old man who has presumably never had sex has got "issues". That probably applies to all the cardinals, maybe excepting those who joined the priesthood late in life, if there are any such individuals.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:24 AM   #21
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I think it is rather obvious, from reading the whole letter, that he has a genuine concern for the PEOPLE involved and that his greatest wish is not to condemn them, but to see them find redemption through Christ.

Whether you agree with his positions on morality or not, I think you should be able to see that in this letter.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:28 AM   #22
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redemption for what?
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:31 AM   #23
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The constant focus on sexual issues, particularly orientation, does indicate to me that the man himself has sexual issues. He is obviously intelligent but marred by a few blind spots.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by john1800
I think it is rather obvious, from reading the whole letter, that he has a genuine concern for the PEOPLE involved and that his greatest wish is not to condemn them, but to see them find redemption through Christ.

Whether you agree with his positions on morality or not, I think you should be able to see that in this letter.
Is this a joke post? Jesus is not recorded as saying anything about sexual orientation.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
You've got to wonder if a 78 year old man who has presumably never had sex has got "issues". That probably applies to all the cardinals, maybe excepting those who joined the priesthood late in life, if there are any such individuals.
there's the problem. The point of view about so many things like homosexuality and contraceptives is so narrow cuz we are talking about an institution leaded by "heterosexual", single and "celibate" men trying to avoid the world and looking for a male and heterosexual God just like them. i say this cuz I'm a girl raised as a catholic and i've been told that women can't be priest but they are good for do all their housekeeping and all the stuff that they don't want to do cuz they say they were the "chosen ones"

I think that God is not a man, neither a woman, God embraces both in his heart and he's beyond our gender boundaries. God made Jesus a guy cuz if he were a woman she wouldn't be listened by her society.
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Old 04-22-2005, 12:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
more like "Papa-nazi"
What an idiotic statement.

Someone who was forced to join the Hitler youth when he was still a boy and somehow he's still considered a nazi in some eyes.

Statements like these are not only incredibly unfair, they destroy your credibility.
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Old 04-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #27
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Originally posted by ImOuttaControl


What an idiotic statement.

Someone who was forced to join the Hitler youth when he was still a boy and somehow he's still considered a nazi in some eyes.

Statements like these are not only incredibly unfair, they destroy your credibility.
They also take the focus away from people who could more aptly be described as Nazis.
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Old 04-22-2005, 03:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl


What an idiotic statement.

Someone who was forced to join the Hitler youth when he was still a boy and somehow he's still considered a nazi in some eyes.

Statements like these are not only incredibly unfair, they destroy your credibility.
I agree. If the new pope had shown pro-Hitler sympathies as an adult then I would be concerned, but he was forced to join the Hitler Youth, he didn't have a choice. He ended up deserting before the war ended.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
New Pope Launches Anti-Gay Salvo
by Malcolm Thornberry 365Gay.com European Bureau Chief

Posted: April 22, 2005 5:01 pm ET

(Vatican City) Less than a week after becoming Pope, Benedict XVI has lashed out at Spain following the passage of a same-sex marriage bill in Parliament.

Spain's lower house on Thursday approved legislation to legalize gay marriage. It is expected to gain approval in the upper chamber and become law next month.

On Friday, the Vatican shot back.

The Pope, speaking through Cardinal Alfonso Lopes Trujill, head of the Pontifical Council on the Family, said Roman Catholics should be prepared to lose their jobs rather than co-operate with the law.

Trujill, in an interview with Corriere della Sera newspaper said Spaniards in all walks of life - especially government officials - are duty bound by Catholicism to oppose accepting same-sex couples.

"We cannot impose the iniquitous on people," he told the paper.

"On the contrary, precisely because they are iniquitous the Church makes an urgent call for freedom of conscience and the duty to oppose.

"A law as profoundly iniquitous as this one is not an obligation, it cannot be an obligation. One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is law."

When asked if this were not discrimination Trujill said no, adding that the Church does not discriminate against gays. He then told the paper that homosexuals need help.

"The Church does not accept homosexuals being the target of jokes, insults and inhumane expressions. They are people who deserve all our love, our support and our aid."

The bill to allow gay marriage was relatively short, saying that "Matrimony shall have the same requisites and effects regardless of whether the persons involved are of the same

Same-sex marriage is legal in Holland and Belgium. Most other European Union countries have some provision for recognizing those in committed same-sex relationships. In December Britain will open its registry for Civil Unions.

In North America most of Canada has legalized same-sex marriage and a bill to expand that throughout the country is currently before Parliament. Massachusetts is the only US state to legalize same-sex marriage, although Civil Unions are legal in Vermont and Connecticut, and several other states including California have domestic partner registries.
Not that anyone should really be surprised. This kind of crap came from JPII as well.

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Old 04-23-2005, 05:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by john1800
I think it is rather obvious, from reading the whole letter, that he has a genuine concern for the PEOPLE involved and that his greatest wish is not to condemn them, but to see them find redemption through Christ.

Whether you agree with his positions on morality or not, I think you should be able to see that in this letter.

I certainly hope that followers of the Roman Catholic church may also find redemption if they believe such things. That includes the new Pope. It pains me to see, as a once Catholic, the condition so many suffer, of judgement and bigotry, which is a sin needing much care to help those with such conditions. It also pains me to see the Church insist on blatant disregard for the promotion of family by denying her priests marriage and sexual relationships to do what God created man in His imge for, which is making families. If I ever find my way back I will pray for those who follow this. Until then, he and anyone else can fuck off.

Whether you agree with my positions on morality or not, you should be able to see this in my post.
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