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Old 01-26-2008, 07:12 PM   #211
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Well, at least the author cops to being a Hillary supporter.

But still, this putting forth of the supposed "facts" while ignoring the "spin" on them while accusing the opponent of doing the very same really, really gets my goat.


From the article:
The Lincoln comparison is equally tortured. Yes, Lincoln spent only two years in the House after winning election in 1846. Yet his deep involvement in state and national politics began in 1832, the same year he was elected a captain in the Illinois militia -- and 28 years before he ran for president. He then served as leader of the Illinois Whig Party and served his far-from-undistinguished term in Congress courageously leading opposition to the Mexican War.

After returning home, he became one of the leading railroad lawyers in the country, emerged as an outspoken antislavery leader of Illinois' Republican Party -- and then, in 1858, ran unsuccessfully for the Senate and engaged with Stephen A. Douglas in the nation's most important debates over slavery before the Civil War. It behooves the champions of any candidate to think carefully when citing similarities to Lincoln's record. In this case, the comparison is absurd.


The only reason the comparison is absurd is because the author SAYS its absurd. This kind of argument (very popular on outlets such as Fox News) just drives me nuts. The facts are that Lincoln's only NATIONAL office was his two years in the House--whether they were distinguished or not is ENTIRELY subjective. Lincoln was very politically active for many years and the article makes a good case for that--but look at what the author's done--spun Obama's political activity as minimal and Lincoln's as substanstative. It's not as if Obama was just some guy sitting on his couch who decided to write a book and run for president last year. It's true most of his political involvement has been in the local and state level but here's the thing--the thing the author of this article won't say--SO WAS LINCOLN'S! The author is essentially suggesting that Lincoln's state and local political activity is worthy and Obama's isn't. THAT is absurd. That guy they had as the keynote speaker at the Democratic National Convention in 2004--was he just some neophyte somebody found and stuck on the stage?

But what the hell, a lot of people had great doubts about Lincoln's capacity to lead the country as well. That's historically documented as well.

The shorthanding of the Obama and Clinton campaigns as being about "change" and "experience" is another example of the dumbing down of political discourse in this country and it's very sad.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:15 AM   #212
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NY Times

January 27, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
A President Like My Father
By CAROLINE KENNEDY

Over the years, I’ve been deeply moved by the people who’ve told me they wished they could feel inspired and hopeful about America the way people did when my father was president. This sense is even more profound today. That is why I am supporting a presidential candidate in the Democratic primaries, Barack Obama.

My reasons are patriotic, political and personal, and the three are intertwined. All my life, people have told me that my father changed their lives, that they got involved in public service or politics because he asked them to. And the generation he inspired has passed that spirit on to its children. I meet young people who were born long after John F. Kennedy was president, yet who ask me how to live out his ideals.

Sometimes it takes a while to recognize that someone has a special ability to get us to believe in ourselves, to tie that belief to our highest ideals and imagine that together we can do great things. In those rare moments, when such a person comes along, we need to put aside our plans and reach for what we know is possible.

We have that kind of opportunity with Senator Obama. It isn’t that the other candidates are not experienced or knowledgeable. But this year, that may not be enough. We need a change in the leadership of this country — just as we did in 1960.

Most of us would prefer to base our voting decision on policy differences. However, the candidates’ goals are similar. They have all laid out detailed plans on everything from strengthening our middle class to investing in early childhood education. So qualities of leadership, character and judgment play a larger role than usual.

Senator Obama has demonstrated these qualities throughout his more than two decades of public service, not just in the United States Senate but in Illinois, where he helped turn around struggling communities, taught constitutional law and was an elected state official for eight years. And Senator Obama is showing the same qualities today. He has built a movement that is changing the face of politics in this country, and he has demonstrated a special gift for inspiring young people — known for a willingness to volunteer, but an aversion to politics — to become engaged in the political process.

I have spent the past five years working in the New York City public schools and have three teenage children of my own. There is a generation coming of age that is hopeful, hard-working, innovative and imaginative. But too many of them are also hopeless, defeated and disengaged. As parents, we have a responsibility to help our children to believe in themselves and in their power to shape their future. Senator Obama is inspiring my children, my parents’ grandchildren, with that sense of possibility.

Senator Obama is running a dignified and honest campaign. He has spoken eloquently about the role of faith in his life, and opened a window into his character in two compelling books. And when it comes to judgment, Barack Obama made the right call on the most important issue of our time by opposing the war in Iraq from the beginning.

I want a president who understands that his responsibility is to articulate a vision and encourage others to achieve it; who holds himself, and those around him, to the highest ethical standards; who appeals to the hopes of those who still believe in the American Dream, and those around the world who still believe in the American ideal; and who can lift our spirits, and make us believe again that our country needs every one of us to get involved.

I have never had a president who inspired me the way people tell me that my father inspired them. But for the first time, I believe I have found the man who could be that president — not just for me, but for a new generation of Americans.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:25 AM   #213
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She scares me...
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:27 AM   #214
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Good times never seemed so good....
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:27 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
NY Times

January 27, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
A President Like My Father
By CAROLINE KENNEDY

I want a president who understands that his responsibility is to articulate a vision and encourage others to achieve it; who holds himself, and those around him, to the highest ethical standards; who appeals to the hopes of those who still believe in the American Dream, and those around the world who still believe in the American ideal; and who can lift our spirits, and make us believe again that our country needs every one of us to get involved.

I have never had a president who inspired me the way people tell me that my father inspired them. But for the first time, I believe I have found the man who could be that president — not just for me, but for a new generation of Americans.
I hear ya, Caroline..

This is an impressive endorsement, to say the least.

It's been a long time, if ever, that I have strongly supported 2
candidates. This is going to be a tough call.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:35 PM   #216
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and with Uncle Ted's endorsement tomorrow

there goes the bridge to moderates, independents and Reagan democrats?
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:36 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally posted by sue4u2


I hear ya, Caroline..

This is an impressive endorsement, to say the least.

It's been a long time, if ever, that I have strongly supported 2
candidates. This is going to be a tough call.
what did you believed before you read this
that you no longer believe?
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:10 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

what did you believed before you read this
that you no longer believe?
It's not that I believed one over the other.
I've supported Clinton all along.
My only concern with Clinton is that there are so many past resentments, on both sides, that uniting the parties to work together may be more difficult for her to pull off.

At this point I think Obama has the edge in doing this.
(if it's at all possible, that is)
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:27 PM   #219
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I will cede the point that Obama attracts more younger people than Hillary


like Jackson he gets them

fired up and ready to go

Jackson was very influential in Clinton's 92 win
getting voters to the polls


and yes
I do believe Bill Clinton will work very hard for Obama in Nov, as the last Dem President

I just believe that Hillary has a better chance of capturing more (in all age groups) moderates, independents and moderate GOP like myself.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:33 PM   #220
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The Clinton strategy was to paint him as the "black candidate" and lose SC. This will propell her to victory in virtually every other state.

Peace
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:47 PM   #221
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"This will propell her to victory in virtually every other state."


I don't think so.


Obama won

Iowa
SC

he will win DC

can he win in these?

Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, Virginia, Delaware, Vermont, Alaska, Texas?
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:58 PM   #222
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I think many of those states could go either way...Virginia will be interesting. Northern Virginia is kind of split between Obama and Hillary, the rest of the state is mostly split between Obama and Edwards.

I'll be seeing Obama on Feb 9, and possibly Hillary Clinton as well (and MAYBE John Edwards) so that'll be interesting.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:07 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

like Jackson he gets them

fired up and ready to go

Jackson was very influential in Clinton's 92 win
getting voters to the polls


I just believe that Hillary has a better chance of capturing more (in all age groups) moderates, independents and moderate GOP like myself.

I remember how I respected Jesse Jackson back then, and the feeling that even with all that he spoke, and I agreed with - I was still going to vote for Bill Clinton, and did.
With Obama however, its different.

With that said, I completely agree with your last point.
Hillary has a much better chance of reaching a larger range of voters.
Guess we'll see, to a degree, on super Tuesday.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:26 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
"This will propell her to victory in virtually every other state."


I don't think so.


Obama won

Iowa
SC

he will win DC

can he win in these?

Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, Virginia, Delaware, Vermont, Alaska, Texas?
"Virtually"

And I believe there are only three states in which the African American voters approach the numbers that SC has.

There is also a big difference betwee Iowa - a caucus verses a primary.

So, CA and NY go to Hillary - Game set match.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:34 PM   #225
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This article explains why voters are attracted to Obama.

Personally I would vote for him over McCain. With Obama you get the real deal, who has integrity, faithful to his wife and isn't a conniving or plotting person:

Dear Mr. Obama;

You’re right. Your assertion from the past week is absolutely correct. You ARE running against “both Clintons.”



US Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama (D-IL) is pictured during a roundtable discussion with women in Columbia, South Carolina, January 25, 2008. The next Presidential Primary will be held in South Carolina on January 26. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008 (USA) I’ll address “both Clintons” in a moment. First, let me congratulate you and thank you for staying “above board,“ and conducting a mostly honorable and positive campaign.

Given my previous criticisms of some of your ideas, in this and other publications, you might be surprised to find me being complimentary now. But this gets to an important point: I can disagree with your ideas, while still respecting your conduct. And at this moment I’m commenting on your conduct.

Unlike some “black leaders” (self-appointed as they may be) of our day, you seem to be running a campaign that is generally devoid of the race baiting rhetoric that has become commonplace. And while I’m sure that you have experienced plenty of prejudice and bigotry in your lifetime, I don’t sense that you assume yourself to be a victim merely because of your skin color, or that you would assume me to be your perpetrator merely because of mine. This is very refreshing, and I’m grateful for it.

Similarly, I’m impressed that you and your wife Michelle seem to be contented and confident in your respective rolls. A well educated and accomplished professional in her own right, Michelle appears to be comfortable with the reality that you are campaigning for the presidency, and she is not. Based on what we can observe publicly, it seems that the Obama family simply “is what it is,” regardless of whether or not “it” is politically expedient at any given moment. This, too, is refreshing. It’s good for you, your family, and our country.

Now, about the Clintons. Yes, it’s tragic what they are doing, both to you, and to your party. As for you, they have most certainly distorted your position on the war in Iraq, and your statements about President Reagan. As for the party, they have made key issues of race and gender, and have enflamed racial tensions that some people didn’t know existed. But surely you can’t be surprised by this - - can you?

Let’s examine some of what’s happened. Earlier this month, after several days of Bill trashing your character, complete with the “fairy tale” and “hit job” accusations, you finally called him on it. Shortly thereafter, we saw Bill speaking in a black church claiming “I kind of like seeing Barack and Hillary fighting” - - his clever, passive way of implying that he isn‘t in the fight himself.

Then, after yet another week of Bill assaulting you and distorting your record, complete with his repeated, grotesque, red-faced tirades before the tv cameras, Hillary got “emotional” again - - claiming reluctantly that she’s been attacked by you, and then in her oh-so regretful tone of voice stating that she has no other choice but to “counterpunch.”

Mr. Obama, are you surprised by any of this? I’m younger than you are, and I remember the politics of the 1990’s all too well. Surely you must also remember.

Mr. and Mrs. Clinton are the merciless masters of misinformation. The veracity of their assertions and subtle implications, and the damage that they might bring about at any given moment, doesn’t matter - - their “story” will change later, anyway. What matters for the Clintons is what they can accomplish politically for themselves, in the moment. This was the politics of the Clintons’ White House, and it is now the politics of the Clintons’ campaign to destroy you.

And as much as you have tried to not make your ethnicity an issue in your campaign, it matters. Especially for the Clintons. While Bill likes to fancy himself as America’s “first black President,” and Hillary thinks that nobody has done more for the cause of “civil rights” than herself, you symbolize something very unnerving to them. You’re the accomplished, confident black man from a younger generation who doesn’t need their help. Worse yet, you have the “audacity” to challenge their authority. You obliterate their long-held stereotype, and threaten to obliterate an entire political paradigm. You endanger the old-school politics of the Clintons.

But doesn’t this ultimately lead us to your concept of the “politics of hope,” Mr. Obama? When the Clintons speak of “change,” they’re merely speaking of an end to Republican rule and their own return at White House. For you, it seems that “change” and “hope” mean a departure from the Clintons’ duplicitous, deceitful politics of personal destruction. Tell us more about that, Mr. Obama. And feel free to tell us how the Clintons’ “good candidate / bad candidate” gamesmanship appears from your vantage point.

And regardless of how your campaign ends, I believe that your candidacy has already accomplished great things. Ultimately, I believe that American politics will be better-off when your party relinquishes itself from the Clintons’ stranglehold, and I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

But not matter how these next several weeks unfold, be strong. And remember, Mr. Obama. You’re right.
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