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Old 04-23-2006, 12:49 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally posted by Party Boy


Even if its 8 months 30 days old?

I would LOVE to find out where you guys get your info!
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:50 AM   #182
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Originally posted by Party Boy


All of the above. To me, they prevent the possibility of life. Abortion is ending life that already exists.

Please tell me if you cannot see the difference and I will try to explain.
So what is your answer to my question first and i will DO the honour of educating YOU!
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:51 AM   #183
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Originally posted by martha


Wow. Congratulations. You've let us all know how you really feel.
Um... isnt that the whole point of threads and posting opinions?

Or am I missing something?
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:52 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


I would LOVE to find out where you guys get your info!
What do you mean? By 8 months 30 days old I mean in terms of pregnancy cycle. In the context of my question, what is it that I have wrong in terms of info?
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:55 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


So what is your answer to my question first and i will DO the honour of educating YOU!
Ok - to answer your question

You asked if I used any contraception because if I did, I was in some way, aborting life, correct?

And my answer is, all those measures prevent the possibility of life (or at least 99% chance of life). So how can all forms of contraception be seen as abortion when there is no life to abort, other than the potential of life.

Anyway, this arguement is a much more religious angle to argue against abortion. I am not argueing that angle.
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:56 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


So what is your answer to my question first and i will DO the honour of educating YOU!
Wait a minute, i just re-read your post. You answered All of the above to the list of contraception methods.

And you happen to be a Pro-Lifer!.....ummm...interesting......
you don't consider The Pill or morning-after NOT Abortifacient...'cause reality is, it certainly is, it's just that the termination of pregnancy happens straight away or within a 72 hour period.
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:57 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Party Boy



If you read my original post, I have no interest in womens bodies. My arguement is the rights of the unborn child.
I know you're a man so you probably have no idea just how frightening that sounds to me as a woman and I can tell you I ain't the only one, not by far.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:02 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


Wait a minute, i just re-read your post. You answered All of the above to the list of contraception methods.

And you happen to be a Pro-Lifer!.....ummm...interesting......
you don't consider The Pill or morning-after NOT Abortifacient...'cause reality is, it certainly is, it's just that the termination of pregnancy happens straight away or within a 72 hour period.
Let me clarify..

I am pro - life where life exists. How can i be pro - life if no life exists, other than the potential? I am aborting potential.

Sure, the morning after pill could be aborting existing life. I am not arguing this. However, we dont know this for a fact, so this for me is potential life as we are not consious of life existing.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:04 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I know you're a man so you probably have no idea just how frightening that sounds to me as a woman and I can tell you I ain't the only one, not by far.
Can I just clarify this sentence before I get jumped on by tons of people.

What i meant to say was who is the voice for the unborn child. Thats all. I didnt mean it to come out as harsh as it looks - i.e. women have zero rights and its all about the unborn child.

Apologies.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:07 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by Party Boy


Let me clarify..

I am pro - life where life exists. How can i be pro - life if no life exists, other than the potential? I am aborting potential.

Sure, the morning after pill could be aborting existing life. I am not arguing this. However, we dont know this for a fact, so this for me is potential life as we are not consious of life existing.
So..... what, you DON'T think your little swimmers or your GF eggs are not LIFE!
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:09 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


So..... what, you DON'T think your little swimmers or your GF eggs are not LIFE!
Your not getting my point.

Are you saying my little swimmers hitting a rubber wall (if i am using a Condom) is killing life? Please tell me thats not your point.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:10 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Party Boy


Can I just clarify this sentence before I get jumped on by tons of people.

What i meant to say was who is the voice for the unborn child. Thats all. I didnt mean it to come out as harsh as it looks - i.e. women have zero rights and its all about the unborn child.

Apologies.
Thanks for the clarification!

But I would argue that we have MORE than enough "voices" for the unborn child. They are everywhere, they are often hysterical, they are pharmacists who won't issue me out pill that my MD prescribed, they have powerful lobbies, and so on.

The unborn have louder voices than the children who are abandoned into the foster care system, louder voices than the women so desperate that they feel they have no choice, louder voices than the women in the third world who have no access to birth control at all and so on.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:17 AM   #193
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Originally posted by anitram


Thanks for the clarification!

But I would argue that we have MORE than enough "voices" for the unborn child. They are everywhere, they are often hysterical, they are pharmacists who won't issue me out pill that my MD prescribed, they have powerful lobbies, and so on.

The unborn have louder voices than the children who are abandoned into the foster care system, louder voices than the women so desperate that they feel they have no choice, louder voices than the women in the third world who have no access to birth control at all and so on.
As I wrote in previous posts, i have nothing against contraception - that whole part of the anti abortion lobby I completely disagree with.

Equally, from a medical point of view, I found your earlier post about what constitutes living life quite interesting and it has made me think a lot.

I also take on board what your saying in relation to third world countries who dont have access to birth control etc. however, these issues, along with foster care systems, children being abandoned etc are all social issues which ultimately the unborn child is paying for. I don't agree with that.

As the unborn child cannot speak for themselves, a louder voice is needed to ensure its rights are heard.
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:41 AM   #194
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I've read through this thread want to ask something - and please know I'm not trying to entrap anyone here, or add gasoline to the fire, or call out anyone in particular.

A common thread among those who dispute abortion as being a matter of choice for women is the rallying cry of "But who will protect the child's rights?". Now, I would guess that 97% of the world's population is fully in support of protecting newborns (and children, in general) from things or people that may harm them. And why is that? Excluding religious beliefs, it could stem from morals, personal convictions, or even a conscience which directs us to be the 'hero' for someone/something smaller, weaker and less able to defend itself. Besides, it's a win-win situation - the 'weakling' is defended plus we get an ego boost & a chance to pat ourselves on the back for our noble endeavors.

But that's where things get shaky for me. All these folks who line miles and miles of a major thoroughfare here in Wilmington the first Sunday of every October, (for example) with their posters and handmade signs and small children in tow, shouting to traffic to stop abortion.... why aren't these same folks protesting in front of orphanages, boys'/girls' homes, foster parenting agencies, etc.? I mean, if you're so interested in protecting the rights of children, why not start with the ones that are already part of our society? What - only 'cute' little newborns deserve special help?

That's the part of the pro-life stance that I've always had issue with. I feel that until every child that needs a family has one (via adoption, not foster care which is supposed to be temporary) I don't want to see a single soul shouting to "Save the Babies!". EVERY child deserves to be saved - not just the cute little babes. I can only imagine that while most pro-lifers would have no problem subjugating my body to their decisions, they'd strongly object to our government telling them which of these newborn children they'd then have to take into their homes & raise. Whether or not to have more children should be the parents' choice, right? (<--- Strong irony intended here.)

I don't really expect that such a thing would ever happen, and maybe I'm looking at things in a terribly naieve way, but it's always been in my thoughts when discussing abortion.

What about the kids already born who deserve to be protected, too?
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Old 04-23-2006, 03:53 AM   #195
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^That was a wonderful post.
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