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Old 10-16-2004, 12:19 PM   #106
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not too many here believe that here in proportion/ratio but i do regardless
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Old 10-16-2004, 02:22 PM   #107
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Originally posted by bonosloveslave
Is that because you don't believe the Bible? There are many scriptures to back this up.
You obviously haven't read any of my other posts. Things are taken hugely out of context. He ignores several of the teachings of Christ and twists others. He quotes human law, which just because it is in the bible does not make it God's law. For example Leviticus is often taken out of context and offered to us as God's law when in fact it is not. If it was, any man who's ever shaved his sideburns, slept in the same bed with his wife while she was menstrating, touched pork or even eaten shellfish would be sinning. Oh and we could own slaves. So sorry, but I believe in taking the Bible in context and applying it correctly to my life.
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Old 10-16-2004, 02:57 PM   #108
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May I add something here(seeing as I did start this thread). I don't mean to offend anybody, but I don't at all care what the bible says. This is NOT a question of religion. It's a question of right and wrong, and that exists without religion. Captial punishment is wrong. It is legal murder. I want you to imagine something. Imagine god forbid a loved one of yours is killed in cold blood. Now imagine the pain you would feel. Now imagine the murderer on death row. Imagine the murder's loved ones, imagine the pain they must feel knowing their loved one is going to die. Do you wish that pain on them? The criminal being behind bars forever is not good enough for you? You want to take from the criminal's family the privilege of getting to visit him every now and then? Capitial punishment is a punishment that goes beyond the criminal. It punishes the criminal's innocent family too, and that is wrong.

There is nothing right about capital punishment. And nothing the bible says will change that fact in my mind.
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Old 10-16-2004, 03:27 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
So it is a belief that Jesus and God support this. They're all for capital punishment.

I think this used to support one's own beliefs.

How many scriptures support slavery?
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Old 10-16-2004, 03:32 PM   #110
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Originally posted by deep
How many scriptures support slavery?
Do you know the answer to this?


If you knew Scripture, you would know the teachings that call slave trading a sin and that state that there is no difference between slave and free. Radical teaching for its day.
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Old 10-16-2004, 04:09 PM   #111
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Do you know the answer to this?


If you knew Scripture, you would know the teachings that call slave trading a sin and that state that there is no difference between slave and free. Radical teaching for its day.
That's right, and isn't this what motivated the abolitionists? They were considered radical in their day also.
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Old 10-16-2004, 04:23 PM   #112
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The Confederates quoted scripture to support their beliefs.




Edited to say:

I am not against scripture.

I do not believe it should be used to support laws,

Separation - is the only thing that keeps this country from becoming our version of a "Shiite Theocracy".
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Old 10-16-2004, 05:41 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

How many scriptures support slavery?
That depends on what version of the Bible you read.

Try the Original African Heritage Study Bible.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:54 PM   #114
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Good lord, is diamond the only one with the balls or willingness to highlight this hypocrisy?

And I thought folk were proud of their religion. Funny how everyone scuttles off to 'elsewhere' when a legitimate and rather curious question is raised.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:09 PM   #115
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Religion can definitely advocate capital punishment.

"...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151)"

See but then it can get very messy because apostacy can be punished with death and the whole Fasaad fi al-ardh comes in.

Basically holy books all come from a different time and while the morality lessons within them have relevance some of the societal and cultural normals do not.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:24 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

In one of the other threads, someone posted regarding how the OT doesn't support murder.
How is this hypocrisy explained? I can see the religious argument for not supporting abortion, I can see the religious argument for not believing in cold blooded murder. So how about this Jury of Peers playing God? Legally killing someone? And the one thing I really do not understand, the deciding on ending another life. A life that (in religious terms) was a gift from God. You're entering God Territory by deciding you can make this decision to remove someone else's gift.

Can you explain that for me please?
Romans 13:1-4.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.


Boiled down how I see this -

- God is in control of who are leaders are, regardless of whether we think they are good or bad
- "he (our authorities) does not bear the sword in vain" - what other thoughts do you have for what 'bearing the sword' means other than death?
- "he is God's minister" - someone appointed to do God's work - "an avenger"

If you don't think the Bible is accurate or worthy of consideration, then I have nothing else to offer. It is the only standard to which I can hold questions up to and determine an answer.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:39 PM   #117
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Thank you bls. I'd agree that the sword means death. I wholeheartedly disagree with the whole view (and I dont mean to be offensive), but if this is how the death penalty is summed up, I cannot question it. All I know is I can never agree to a religion which nurtures such concepts.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:49 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave

- God is in control of who are leaders are, regardless of whether we think they are good or bad
Sounds rather like the concept they had hundreds of years ago when European Emperors were crowned by the Pope.. doesn´t sound very democratic. Also doesn´t sound like a separation between religion and state.

I don´t believe that.

Hm, I really should find out more about when the "Romans" were written and how they were incorporated into the Bible...
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:49 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Thank you bls. I'd agree that the sword means death. I wholeheartedly disagree with the whole view (and I dont mean to be offensive), but if this is how the death penalty is summed up, I cannot question it. All I know is I can never agree to a religion which nurtures such concepts.
I don't think you are offensive at all - for goodness sakes, obviously this is something that even "Christians" disagree on! This is something that can be a bit hard to rationalize, as most people would rather cling to just the "God is Love" idea and ignore everything else. God is many things, and yes life is precious to Him - but He is also just, and if you take another's life of your own accord, HE will have His vengence through the authorities. He has been known to do it on His own in the past, the whole 'fire and brimstone' thing, but there are also numerous examples of Him commanding the Israelites to destroy various peoples for their wickedness - this was HIS command to do this, not something they thought of on their own, thus not 'murder'. Why didn't He just strike them all dead? Only God knows. But I do know that He absolutely abhors true murder - Cain and David are 2 examples. Why did he choose to show mercy on them and spare their lives? Again, only God knows, but their acts did not go unpunished.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:51 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Also doesn´t sound like a separation between religion and state.

That is a fairly recent concept brought forth by men, not God.
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