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Old 10-13-2004, 05:24 PM   #46
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As for abortions being used as birth control.... I don't think that "birth control abortions"would make up a large part of abortions if birth control methods were more readily available and inexpensive. In a sense, what I'm saying is that society must become less squeamish in practical matters regarding sex. Instead of saying "You can't have an abortion," wouldn't it be better to say earlier, "Here's how you can avoid getting pregnant"?
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:31 PM   #47
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I believe abortion is wrong. It makes me sick when people refer to an unborn baby as just a little parasite (ugh). It's a living human!! It's, it's an underdeveloped human, but human nontheless.

Also, I've heard the "but the baby will live an unhappy life. It will have an unhappy family. It's parents won't be able to properly support it. An abortion is best" argument a million times and I think that's complete and utter BS. So where do people think they get the right to decide wheather the baby has a right to try to make a life for itself? Do you think everyone with a crappo family is destined to live a miserable life? Do you think it's your right to deny that to a human (yes, a human!!!)?

Also, even if the baby did have an unhappy life who are we to say wheather it should live or not? Do you think everyone who's unhappy or malnurished deserves to die? Because I know of millions of people who'd beg to differ.

Humans have the right to live and strive for a better life. Period. When people tell me that babies should be aborted simply because they MIGHT have an unhappy life it really singes my butt hairs. Basing your decisions off of what MIGHT happen is wrong, especially when a life is at stake.

Also, I've been told "But we don't really KNOW that the baby is 100% human until the [insert month here], so it's not really murder. For all we know it's just a little developing lump of flesh! Ok go ahead and abort it!". Ok, so you don't know that it's really a baby yet? Well whoopidy-friggin-doo, may as well kill it! The fact is we don't know ANYTHING. If we don't KNOW that it's not killing wouldn't that mean we shouldn't take the chance of taking an innocent life? None of you can tell me for 110% sure that that baby isn't alive, and until you can I'll think abortion is murder. For a society that believes so strongly in the sanctity if human life we're sure careless with potential human life aren't we?

Another reason that philosophy is completely assinine is because life isn't held to a schedule. No one can tell me "the fetus will be alive on the 24th of November at midnight sharp, not a minute earlier!!". You can't say that. Some fetuses develope faster than others just as some children grow faster than others. It's complete BS. These babies don't grow by some silly manmade calender.

Also, don't tell me it's your choice because it's your body. That's a crap reason. The reason someone has a baby in their stomach is because they made THE CHOICE to have sex!! (except in maybe about 0.001% of the time). If you have a baby it's your fault.

I have complete control over my body and no one will tell me what to do with it. I'll randomly swing my fists and hope no one gets in the way, because if they do they're gonna get a punch in the face!!



You may be saying " I don't beliieve in abortion, but who are we to push our beliefes on others? That's just wrong! It's a woman's choice and a woman's choice only!!!" you can kiss my lilly white arse. Are you telling me that you truly believe that abortion is murder, but you don't think it's right to push that beliefe on others? Do you believe what's right and wrong is totally and completely relative, depending on a person's beliefes? Hitler believed killing the Jews was right. Oh he honestly and sincerely felt it!! How can we fault such a man? A man that follows his heart? Come on people!! How can you honestly tell me that abortion is murder and say that it's a woman's choice? Murder is wrong under ANY circumstance. Period.

And don't even get me started on partial birth abortion.

And don't use the "but you've never had the experience of having to possibly change your life for a baby" bit. I have. My girlfriend and I stupidly had sex (with a condom) when I was 17 and we had a HUGE pregnancy scare. The pregnancy test either lied to us or she had a miscarriage. I was planning on completely taking responsibility for our baby. Moving to another city by myself, working full time and going to college while still trying to find time for our baby. I know how crappy and completely terrfying but it's far from impossible. I was also willing to take full responsibility for my baby not only because I had to, but because I LOVED it. I wanted that baby and I was willing to change my entire life for it. The majority of people who have children are completely capable of caring for them. The problem isn't that they can't, it's just that they're irrisponsible and selfish, and don't want to sacrifice their plans for another person.
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:33 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
As for abortions being used as birth control.... I don't think that "birth control abortions"would make up a large part of abortions if birth control methods were more readily available and inexpensive. In a sense, what I'm saying is that society must become less squeamish in practical matters regarding sex. Instead of saying "You can't have an abortion," wouldn't it be better to say earlier, "Here's how you can avoid getting pregnant"?


Birth control IS inexpensive and readily available already!!! You don't think people have a ton of "birth control abortions"---come sit on my end of the phone at work for a day, it'll make your head spin.

Secondly, you can try to avoid getting pregnant all you want--even use birth control. No method of birth control is 100% effective though. The issue of abortion would not be as widespread, true...but it'd still be there.
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue

Secondly, you can try to avoid getting pregnant all you want--even use birth control. No method of birth control is 100% effective though. The issue of abortion would not be as widespread, true...but it'd still be there.
A lot of birth control pills are 100% effective scientifically. User error is why it sometimes doesn't work. If someone is really that concerned with getting pregnant, BOTH partners should each use some form of birth control (like a condom AND the pill).
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:56 PM   #50
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Originally posted by shart1780
I believe abortion is wrong. It makes me sick when people refer to an unborn baby as just a little parasite (ugh). It's a living human!! It's, it's an underdeveloped human, but human nontheless.

Also, I've heard the "but the baby will live an unhappy life. It will have an unhappy family. It's parents won't be able to properly support it. An abortion is best" argument a million times and I think that's complete and utter BS. So where do people think they get the right to decide wheather the baby has a right to try to make a life for itself? Do you think everyone with a crappo family is destined to live a miserable life? Do you think it's your right to deny that to a human (yes, a human!!!)?

Also, even if the baby did have an unhappy life who are we to say wheather it should live or not? Do you think everyone who's unhappy or malnurished deserves to die? Because I know of millions of people who'd beg to differ. Humans have the right to live and strive for a better life. Period. When people tell me that babies should be aborted simply because they MIGHT have an unhappy life it really singes my butt hairs. Basing your decisions off of what MIGHT happen is wrong, especially when a life is at stake.
Thank you. I get so tired of the idea that it should be aborted because it MIGHT have a crap life. Well what if it doesn't? You never know unless you have a chance, and a life is a chance. Also if you go around thinking people with less than perfect situations in their life might as well be dead, then about 80% of the population of the world might as well crawl off and die, including me.

Quote:
You may be saying " I don't beliieve in abortion, but who are we to push our beliefes on others? That's just wrong! It's a woman's choice and a woman's choice only!!!" you can kiss my lilly white arse. Are you telling me that you truly believe that abortion is murder, but you don't think it's right to push that beliefe on others? Do you believe what's right and wrong is totally and completely relative, depending on a person's beliefes? How can you honestly tell me that abortion is murder and say that it's a woman's choice? Murder is wrong under ANY circumstance. Period.
That position pisses me off and I even find it laughable how noble people think it is. To me, it's the same as saying "I'd never kill my wife, I believe in my heart it's wrong, but if OJ wants to kill his wife, who am I to judge? That's his choice!" Allowing someone else the 'choice' of ending a life is also wrong, I cannot condone it on those grounds.
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:58 PM   #51
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
I don't care what you do with YOUR body, piercings, tatoos, shave your head, cut yourself with glass, streak at a football game it's your business. I don't even oppose assisted suicide if that's what an adult decides for his or herself. But abortion involves someone else's body too, not just the mother's.

I'm going to try not to rant, but the thing that bothers me most is it being justified as a 'choice' and a 'right.' I don't see there should be any more right to kill an unborn child because it's an inconvenience to you than I believe a person should be able to eliminate an ex spouse, rotten boss or nosey neighbor for making their life a living hell. The term 'right to choose' does not fly with me.

The only time it should be legal is rape and incest, and surely the female knows when that occured and should take a morning after pill (and file a police report on the assailant, morning after pill for forgotten birth control and passionate night before too), if the mother's health is in danger, or if the baby is found to have such severe deformities it will die anyway after suffering. In any case, I agree that partial birth abortion is completely evil, murder most henious (cut the spinal cord, suck out the brain, crush the skull) and should never be done, and yes doctors should be considered murderers for doing this. Sorry, I know a lot of you will hate me for saying this, but I feel very strongly that life is precious and not disposible for reasons of someone's inconvenience. I also don't subcribe to the 'better off dead' theory, might as well kill it now it might have a crap life. You never know. To live is to hope. I don't even believe that for dogs and cats at the pound, and I don't believe it for human babies.

On the subject of back alley/driving underground, remember that most of that happened in the time when there were no birth control pills or most of the contraceptives we have today.

I also want to say that it's not a question of religion for me, it's just common sense right and wrong.
You have a right to your opinion, but what you believe is "common sense right and wrong" isn't what everyone believes. You don't have the right to push your opinions, whether they are based on religious belief or not, on anyone else. You opinions are no more valid than mine.
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:06 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


You have a right to your opinion, but what you believe is "common sense right and wrong" isn't what everyone believes. You don't have the right to push your opinions, whether they are based on religious belief or not, on anyone else. You opinions are no more valid than mine.
I disagree. I believe opinions are more valid when backed with evidence and logic. Logic is universal, it isn't relative. Also, I don't care what you accept as true as long as it's only effecting you, but when you're affecting an innocent human you need to be questioned, wheather you believe it's right or not.

I don't think someone's life should merely be based off of a "well, I don't feel that way, sorry. I can't give you any reasons backed by fact or anything... I just don't feel the same way you do."
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:08 PM   #53
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Originally posted by sharky


According to who? In the Jewish faith, the mother and child are one entity until the child is born. The soul does not even enter the embryo until 40 days after conception for males and 80 days after conception for females.
At the risk of seeming like a smartass (yeah, I know, what else is new).... Sharky, does the soul entering the male 40 day after conception, but not entering the female until 80 days after conception mean that males are merely half as complex as females?
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:14 PM   #54
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Worst of all I hate to see people endorse that opinion because they want to do it anyway and not feel guilty so they convince themselves they're not wrong, people are wrong for telling them they're wrong. What I mean by common sense is, it's alive, you kill it, it's dead, therefore murder, therefore wrong, end of story. And, as my best friend's bumper sticker says, if it's not really a baby, you're not really pregnant!

My best friend has no children because her husband was injured at is unable to father children. They have not been able to adopt because thanks to abortion (and of course more girls keeping their babies due to reduced stigma) there are hardly any babies available for adoption, only affluent people can afford them now. You even need to be affluent to afford to arrange an adoption of a Romanian orphan. Adoption is a beautiful choice and it's a shame more babies and couples aren't given that chance.
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:17 PM   #55
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For myself, it is wrong. However, I believe a woman has the right to choose what is right or wrong for her. She will have to live with consequences of her actions.

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Old 10-13-2004, 06:21 PM   #56
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


A lot of birth control pills are 100% effective scientifically. User error is why it sometimes doesn't work. If someone is really that concerned with getting pregnant, BOTH partners should each use some form of birth control (like a condom AND the pill).

NO, I repeat NO method of BC is 100% effective. User error does have some to do with it...but no method is entirely failsafe.
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:25 PM   #57
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Originally posted by shart1780


And don't use the "but you've never had the experience of having to possibly change your life for a baby" bit. I have. My girlfriend and I stupidly had sex (with a condom) when I was 17 and we had a HUGE pregnancy scare. The pregnancy test either lied to us or she had a miscarriage. I was planning on completely taking responsibility for our baby. Moving to another city by myself, working full time and going to college while still trying to find time for our baby. I know how crappy and completely terrfying but it's far from impossible. I was also willing to take full responsibility for my baby not only because I had to, but because I LOVED it. I wanted that baby and I was willing to change my entire life for it. The majority of people who have children are completely capable of caring for them. The problem isn't that they can't, it's just that they're irrisponsible and selfish, and don't want to sacrifice their plans for another person.
I want to applaud you.

You have no idea how many calls I get from women that are terrified because a)they have an unplanned pregnancy and b)their husband or boyfriend are trying to force them to abort. I even get calls from men. They can talk all they want about how they want her to "get rid of 'it'". But when I ask them, "Do you realize that this is YOUR child. That's a part of YOU growing in her, that isn't an IT"---they don't have much to argue against. It just saddens me when men pressure women to do things like this. Abortion is a physcially and emotionally trying procedure whether or not you feel ok about the choice for it--the fact is that it is an intense procedure. It's easy to tell a woman to deal with it, rather than try and support her in her trial.
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:17 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
Also, don't tell me it's your choice because it's your body. That's a crap reason. The reason someone has a baby in their stomach is because they made THE CHOICE to have sex!! (except in maybe about 0.001% of the time). If you have a baby it's your fault.

Baby's come from a woman's stomach? Hmmm... I didn't know that.
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:32 PM   #59
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It bothers me when people say: "It's my body, I have a right to do what I want with it."

Does that mean we have the right to murder other people with our bodies? No, we don't.

Last time I checked, muerte is illegal around these parts.
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:45 PM   #60
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I'll be short and to the point: The government should stay the hell out of the womb. It is a woman's choice. Perhaps her partner's as well. But for a woman, this is one of the hardest, most painful, most private decisions they will ever make. And the government has absolutely, positively, no right at all to be taking ANY kind of part in a decision that is THAT private. Pro-choice. Period.
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