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Old 10-13-2004, 04:17 PM   #31
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I think that abortion is wrong and more enlightened historians 200 years from now will regard abortion the same way we today view the Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, etc.

I also have a problem with people saying that abortion should stay legal in order to avoid unsafe abortions with hangars in back alleys. Using that logic, shouldn't drugs be legalized in order to prevent people from being killed while performing drug deals in back alleys?
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
What scares me the most about abortion is that people want it without know what it really is. Alot of women feel rushed to make a desiscion about thier pregnancy and they make choices without getting all the information they need...whether those women know it or not they are mother's when discovering they are pregnant. They aren't just women with a parasite.
exactly! But being pro choice dosn't mean that pragnant women who are thinking about abortion should be left alone, it's our job to help them to make the right decision - help them, don't force them.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:28 PM   #33
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That's what I try to do at my job. Our centers try to help women make an educated and informed decision. And we let them know that should they choose to keep the child we aren't going to just give them a pat on the back and walk away. We provide pre-natal care, classes, material aid, we'll even help find housing or job training/financial aid. Our centers are just blinded to the principle of abortion. We care about the woman too and the factors that might be making her feel as though she isn't empowered enough to make a choice with her heart.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:33 PM   #34
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I've never been pregnant. I don't ever plan on getting pregnant. I do whatever I can NOT to get pregnant. I do not know what choice I would make if I did get pregnant. But I damn well want to be able to make whatever decision is best for me. And I'll support everyone elses right to make their own decisions in this matter also.

And I believe that birth control should be much, much, much easier to obtain and covered by insurance and medicaid. Plus children should be bluntly educated about sexual matters early, both to reduce the number of abortions and to reduce the frequency of STDs.


* edited to add -- an ardent anti-abortion neighbor once used the following line to argue against abortion: "Just imagine if Beethoven had been aborted." I shot back: "Just imagine if Hitler had been aborted."

Anyway, this very same woman and her husband allowed a child to die during/immediately after birth from a cord wrapped around the baby's neck. They never sought medical attention during the entire pregnancy, chose to give birth at home without anyone who had a clue present (midwives are allowed and even encouraged in this state), called their preacher when the baby wouldn't breathe, and now just feel God took their baby. Yet this couple is ardently pro-life. Bull.

And yes that was a rant.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
That's what I try to do at my job. Our centers try to help women make an educated and informed decision. And we let them know that should they choose to keep the child we aren't going to just give them a pat on the back and walk away. We provide pre-natal care, classes, material aid, we'll even help find housing or job training/financial aid. Our centers are just blinded to the principle of abortion. We care about the woman too and the factors that might be making her feel as though she isn't empowered enough to make a choice with her heart.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:37 PM   #36
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Originally posted by sharky

According to who? In the Jewish faith, the mother and child are one entity until the child is born. The soul does not even enter the embryo until 40 days after conception for males and 80 days after conception for females.

According to the way I feel in the core of my soul, the way I have always felt about this issue. Hm....It almost makes me wish I could be Jewish....things would be so explicitly defined.....but I'm not Jewish and never will be. I believe abortion is wrong. If you don't want someone's beliefs forced on you, then don't tell me YOUR Jewish beliefs are fact and babies can be aborted until they're 40 days old.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:38 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra

And I believe that birth control should be much, much, much easier to obtain and covered by insurance and medicaid. Plus children should be bluntly educated about sexual matter early, both to reduce the number of abortions and to reduce the frequency of STDs.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:43 PM   #38
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Sharky...where does it say that in the Pentatuech, or any of the OT for that matter?
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:45 PM   #39
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Originally posted by youtwohearts
Once again we are back to the difference of opinion.

I will not go into a war on this back and forth because my opinion won't be swayed anymore than anyone else's. Many women died for us to have the right to choose.
Did you know why the founder of PP was in favor of abortion? Becuase she thought as most people as too idoitic and inferior to reproduce.
Don't believe me...look at the original PP newsletters in it's beggining.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:46 PM   #40
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according to the labels, i am pro-choice. the primary reason behind my position is that i can't determine what's right or wrong for anyone else. this is a moral issue, and ultimately, it's up to the individual to decide if abortion is the best course of action in her circumstances. i don't think the government or anyone else has the right to decide this for her.

i would like to add that i consider the pro-choice label to be indicative of choice--the choice to be pregnant, to give the child up for adoption, or to not be pregnant if this is truly what the woman wants. i respect the argument of sanctity of life, but i also respect women as intelligent autonomous beings with the capacity to make the best decision in the given circumstances.

too often the law is used as an instrument of oppression, and i would rather the choice be there than not. i do not agree with abortion as a form of birth control, but i also think that too many women on this planet do not have control over their sexuality and many women end up pregnant against their will (be it rape, an abusive partner, or simply lack of access to reliable birth control). in the end, i think it's up to the woman to decide. if you're against abortion, don't have one. if it's an option that a woman decides is best for her due to whatever reason, she is the one who has to live with this decision and its consequences. i do not suppose for a second that this is an easy choice to make. but i do think the choice should be there.

just to stir the pot up a bit, any thoughts on the morning after pill?

*edited to support indra's 'rant'.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher

I also have a problem with people saying that abortion should stay legal in order to avoid unsafe abortions with hangars in back alleys. Using that logic, shouldn't drugs be legalized in order to prevent people from being killed while performing drug deals in back alleys?
But I believe drugs should be legalized too. Much of the violence in the US today is cause but the illegality of drugs. If currently illegal drugs were legal and cheaper (and they would be much cheaper if they were legal, as much of what keeps the prices high is there has to be a benefit to risking getting caught...that benefit is money) the level of voilence in this nation would drop greatly.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by dandy

just to stir the pot up a bit, any thoughts on the morning after pill?

*edited to support indra's 'rant'.
Morning after pill -- should be cheap and widely available. Over the counter.

My rant -- Thanks!
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


But I believe drugs should be legalized too. Much of the violence in the US today is cause but the illegality of drugs. If currently illegal drugs were legal and cheaper (and they would be much cheaper if they were legal, as much of what keeps the prices high is there has to be a benefit to risking getting caught...that benefit is money) the level of voilence in this nation would drop greatly.
i'm riding your coattails tonight, indra. this is what i thought about the drug analogy too. i also think prostitution should be legalized as well, but that's a whole other thread topic...
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:03 PM   #44
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I do believe that abortion should be called into question when the case is one of incest or rape, or even if the parents (or just the mother, for that matter) have foreknowledge that the baby will be in a terrible amount of pain when alive.

Having said that, though, I do think that the act of abortion is wrong and that it should not be used as birth control. I do actually believe that in today's society a lot of people really do engage in sexual relations far too early in the relationship without giving 'accidents' a second thought. And this is true in the number of abortions that are taking place today, not to mention the rise of STDs.

I believe that making abortion a less viable option for pregant women (ie - making them pay instead of making tax payers pay for their abortion) will make them think before they act. Yes, it is their body; they should have the freedom to make a wise decision and have the foresight to say no to the would-be inseminator.

'Rights' is a particular buzz-word when debates like abortion come into the fray, and I believe that the word 'responsibility' is just as important.

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Old 10-13-2004, 05:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by dandy


i'm riding your coattails tonight, indra. this is what i thought about the drug analogy too. i also think prostitution should be legalized as well, but that's a whole other thread topic...
Yep. Agree on the prostitution issue as well.
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