What is your opinion on abortion?

[MaxFisher]

I think that abortion is wrong and more enlightened historians 200 years from now will regard abortion the same way we today view the Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, etc.

I also have a problem with people saying that abortion should stay legal in order to avoid unsafe abortions with hangars in back alleys. Using that logic, shouldn't drugs be legalized in order to prevent people from being killed while performing drug deals in back alleys?

 

[Klaus]

What scares me the most about abortion is that people want it without know what it really is. Alot of women feel rushed to make a desiscion about thier pregnancy and they make choices without getting all the information they need...whether those women know it or not they are mother's when discovering they are pregnant. They aren't just women with a parasite.

exactly! But being pro choice dosn't mean that pragnant women who are thinking about abortion should be left alone, it's our job to help them to make the right decision - help them, don't force them.

 

[starsgoblue]

That's what I try to do at my job. Our centers try to help women make an educated and informed decision. And we let them know that should they choose to keep the child we aren't going to just give them a pat on the back and walk away. We provide pre-natal care, classes, material aid, we'll even help find housing or job training/financial aid. Our centers are just blinded to the principle of abortion. We care about the woman too and the factors that might be making her feel as though she isn't empowered enough to make a choice with her heart.

 

[indra]

I've never been pregnant. I don't ever plan on getting pregnant. I do whatever I can NOT to get pregnant. I do not know what choice I would make if I did get pregnant. But I damn well want to be able to make whatever decision is best for me. And I'll support everyone elses right to make their own decisions in this matter also.

And I believe that birth control should be much, much, much easier to obtain and covered by insurance and medicaid. Plus children should be bluntly educated about sexual matters early, both to reduce the number of abortions and to reduce the frequency of STDs.


* edited to add -- an ardent anti-abortion neighbor once used the following line to argue against abortion: "Just imagine if Beethoven had been aborted." I shot back: "Just imagine if Hitler had been aborted."

Anyway, this very same woman and her husband allowed a child to die during/immediately after birth from a cord wrapped around the baby's neck. They never sought medical attention during the entire pregnancy, chose to give birth at home without anyone who had a clue present (midwives are allowed and even encouraged in this state), called their preacher when the baby wouldn't breathe, and now just feel God took their baby. Yet this couple is ardently pro-life. Bull.

And yes that was a rant.

 

[Klaus]

That's what I try to do at my job. Our centers try to help women make an educated and informed decision. And we let them know that should they choose to keep the child we aren't going to just give them a pat on the back and walk away. We provide pre-natal care, classes, material aid, we'll even help find housing or job training/financial aid. Our centers are just blinded to the principle of abortion. We care about the woman too and the factors that might be making her feel as though she isn't empowered enough to make a choice with her heart.

 

[Liesje]

According to who? In the Jewish faith, the mother and child are one entity until the child is born. The soul does not even enter the embryo until 40 days after conception for males and 80 days after conception for females.

According to the way I feel in the core of my soul, the way I have always felt about this issue. Hm....It almost makes me wish I could be Jewish....things would be so explicitly defined.....but I'm not Jewish and never will be. I believe abortion is wrong. If you don't want someone's beliefs forced on you, then don't tell me YOUR Jewish beliefs are fact and babies can be aborted until they're 40 days old.

 

[Liesje]

And I believe that birth control should be much, much, much easier to obtain and covered by insurance and medicaid. Plus children should be bluntly educated about sexual matter early, both to reduce the number of abortions and to reduce the frequency of STDs.

 

[starsgoblue]

Sharky...where does it say that in the Pentatuech, or any of the OT for that matter?

 

[starsgoblue]

Once again we are back to the difference of opinion.

I will not go into a war on this back and forth because my opinion won't be swayed anymore than anyone else's. Many women died for us to have the right to choose.

Did you know why the founder of PP was in favor of abortion? Becuase she thought as most people as too idoitic and inferior to reproduce.
Don't believe me...look at the original PP newsletters in it's beggining.

 

[dandy]

according to the labels, i am pro-choice. the primary reason behind my position is that i can't determine what's right or wrong for anyone else. this is a moral issue, and ultimately, it's up to the individual to decide if abortion is the best course of action in her circumstances. i don't think the government or anyone else has the right to decide this for her.

i would like to add that i consider the pro-choice label to be indicative of choice--the choice to be pregnant, to give the child up for adoption, or to not be pregnant if this is truly what the woman wants. i respect the argument of sanctity of life, but i also respect women as intelligent autonomous beings with the capacity to make the best decision in the given circumstances.

too often the law is used as an instrument of oppression, and i would rather the choice be there than not. i do not agree with abortion as a form of birth control, but i also think that too many women on this planet do not have control over their sexuality and many women end up pregnant against their will (be it rape, an abusive partner, or simply lack of access to reliable birth control). in the end, i think it's up to the woman to decide. if you're against abortion, don't have one. if it's an option that a woman decides is best for her due to whatever reason, she is the one who has to live with this decision and its consequences. i do not suppose for a second that this is an easy choice to make. but i do think the choice should be there.

just to stir the pot up a bit, any thoughts on the morning after pill?

*edited to support indra's 'rant'.

 

[indra]

I also have a problem with people saying that abortion should stay legal in order to avoid unsafe abortions with hangars in back alleys. Using that logic, shouldn't drugs be legalized in order to prevent people from being killed while performing drug deals in back alleys?

But I believe drugs should be legalized too. Much of the violence in the US today is cause but the illegality of drugs. If currently illegal drugs were legal and cheaper (and they would be much cheaper if they were legal, as much of what keeps the prices high is there has to be a benefit to risking getting caught...that benefit is money) the level of voilence in this nation would drop greatly.

 

[indra]

just to stir the pot up a bit, any thoughts on the morning after pill?

*edited to support indra's 'rant'.

Morning after pill -- should be cheap and widely available. Over the counter.

My rant -- Thanks!

 

[dandy]

But I believe drugs should be legalized too. Much of the violence in the US today is cause but the illegality of drugs. If currently illegal drugs were legal and cheaper (and they would be much cheaper if they were legal, as much of what keeps the prices high is there has to be a benefit to risking getting caught...that benefit is money) the level of voilence in this nation would drop greatly.

i'm riding your coattails tonight, indra. this is what i thought about the drug analogy too. i also think prostitution should be legalized as well, but that's a whole other thread topic...

 

[Anthony]

I do believe that abortion should be called into question when the case is one of incest or rape, or even if the parents (or just the mother, for that matter) have foreknowledge that the baby will be in a terrible amount of pain when alive.

Having said that, though, I do think that the act of abortion is wrong and that it should not be used as birth control. I do actually believe that in today's society a lot of people really do engage in sexual relations far too early in the relationship without giving 'accidents' a second thought. And this is true in the number of abortions that are taking place today, not to mention the rise of STDs.

I believe that making abortion a less viable option for pregant women (ie - making them pay instead of making tax payers pay for their abortion) will make them think before they act. Yes, it is their body; they should have the freedom to make a wise decision and have the foresight to say no to the would-be inseminator.

'Rights' is a particular buzz-word when debates like abortion come into the fray, and I believe that the word 'responsibility' is just as important.

Ant.

 

[indra]

i'm riding your coattails tonight, indra. this is what i thought about the drug analogy too. i also think prostitution should be legalized as well, but that's a whole other thread topic...

Yep. Agree on the prostitution issue as well.

 

[indra]

As for abortions being used as birth control.... I don't think that "birth control abortions"would make up a large part of abortions if birth control methods were more readily available and inexpensive. In a sense, what I'm saying is that society must become less squeamish in practical matters regarding sex. Instead of saying "You can't have an abortion," wouldn't it be better to say earlier, "Here's how you can avoid getting pregnant"?

 

[shart1780]

I believe abortion is wrong. It makes me sick when people refer to an unborn baby as just a little parasite (ugh). It's a living human!! It's, it's an underdeveloped human, but human nontheless.

Also, I've heard the "but the baby will live an unhappy life. It will have an unhappy family. It's parents won't be able to properly support it. An abortion is best" argument a million times and I think that's complete and utter BS. So where do people think they get the right to decide wheather the baby has a right to try to make a life for itself? Do you think everyone with a crappo family is destined to live a miserable life? Do you think it's your right to deny that to a human (yes, a human!!!)?

Also, even if the baby did have an unhappy life who are we to say wheather it should live or not? Do you think everyone who's unhappy or malnurished deserves to die? Because I know of millions of people who'd beg to differ.

Humans have the right to live and strive for a better life. Period. When people tell me that babies should be aborted simply because they MIGHT have an unhappy life it really singes my butt hairs. Basing your decisions off of what MIGHT happen is wrong, especially when a life is at stake.

Also, I've been told "But we don't really KNOW that the baby is 100% human until the [insert month here], so it's not really murder. For all we know it's just a little developing lump of flesh! Ok go ahead and abort it!". Ok, so you don't know that it's really a baby yet? Well whoopidy-friggin-doo, may as well kill it! The fact is we don't know ANYTHING. If we don't KNOW that it's not killing wouldn't that mean we shouldn't take the chance of taking an innocent life? None of you can tell me for 110% sure that that baby isn't alive, and until you can I'll think abortion is murder. For a society that believes so strongly in the sanctity if human life we're sure careless with potential human life aren't we?

Another reason that philosophy is completely assinine is because life isn't held to a schedule. No one can tell me "the fetus will be alive on the 24th of November at midnight sharp, not a minute earlier!!". You can't say that. Some fetuses develope faster than others just as some children grow faster than others. It's complete BS. These babies don't grow by some silly manmade calender.

Also, don't tell me it's your choice because it's your body. That's a crap reason. The reason someone has a baby in their stomach is because they made THE CHOICE to have sex!! (except in maybe about 0.001% of the time). If you have a baby it's your fault.

I have complete control over my body and no one will tell me what to do with it. I'll randomly swing my fists and hope no one gets in the way, because if they do they're gonna get a punch in the face!!



You may be saying " I don't beliieve in abortion, but who are we to push our beliefes on others? That's just wrong! It's a woman's choice and a woman's choice only!!!" you can kiss my lilly white arse. Are you telling me that you truly believe that abortion is murder, but you don't think it's right to push that beliefe on others? Do you believe what's right and wrong is totally and completely relative, depending on a person's beliefes? Hitler believed killing the Jews was right. Oh he honestly and sincerely felt it!! How can we fault such a man? A man that follows his heart? Come on people!! How can you honestly tell me that abortion is murder and say that it's a woman's choice? Murder is wrong under ANY circumstance. Period.

And don't even get me started on partial birth abortion.

And don't use the "but you've never had the experience of having to possibly change your life for a baby" bit. I have. My girlfriend and I stupidly had sex (with a condom) when I was 17 and we had a HUGE pregnancy scare. The pregnancy test either lied to us or she had a miscarriage. I was planning on completely taking responsibility for our baby. Moving to another city by myself, working full time and going to college while still trying to find time for our baby. I know how crappy and completely terrfying but it's far from impossible. I was also willing to take full responsibility for my baby not only because I had to, but because I LOVED it. I wanted that baby and I was willing to change my entire life for it. The majority of people who have children are completely capable of caring for them. The problem isn't that they can't, it's just that they're irrisponsible and selfish, and don't want to sacrifice their plans for another person.

 

[starsgoblue]

As for abortions being used as birth control.... I don't think that "birth control abortions"would make up a large part of abortions if birth control methods were more readily available and inexpensive. In a sense, what I'm saying is that society must become less squeamish in practical matters regarding sex. Instead of saying "You can't have an abortion," wouldn't it be better to say earlier, "Here's how you can avoid getting pregnant"?

Birth control IS inexpensive and readily available already!!! You don't think people have a ton of "birth control abortions"---come sit on my end of the phone at work for a day, it'll make your head spin.

Secondly, you can try to avoid getting pregnant all you want--even use birth control. No method of birth control is 100% effective though. The issue of abortion would not be as widespread, true...but it'd still be there.

 

[Liesje]

Secondly, you can try to avoid getting pregnant all you want--even use birth control. No method of birth control is 100% effective though. The issue of abortion would not be as widespread, true...but it'd still be there.

A lot of birth control pills are 100% effective scientifically. User error is why it sometimes doesn't work. If someone is really that concerned with getting pregnant, BOTH partners should each use some form of birth control (like a condom AND the pill).

 

[U2Kitten]

I believe abortion is wrong. It makes me sick when people refer to an unborn baby as just a little parasite (ugh). It's a living human!! It's, it's an underdeveloped human, but human nontheless.

Also, I've heard the "but the baby will live an unhappy life. It will have an unhappy family. It's parents won't be able to properly support it. An abortion is best" argument a million times and I think that's complete and utter BS. So where do people think they get the right to decide wheather the baby has a right to try to make a life for itself? Do you think everyone with a crappo family is destined to live a miserable life? Do you think it's your right to deny that to a human (yes, a human!!!)?

Also, even if the baby did have an unhappy life who are we to say wheather it should live or not? Do you think everyone who's unhappy or malnurished deserves to die? Because I know of millions of people who'd beg to differ. Humans have the right to live and strive for a better life. Period. When people tell me that babies should be aborted simply because they MIGHT have an unhappy life it really singes my butt hairs. Basing your decisions off of what MIGHT happen is wrong, especially when a life is at stake.

Thank you. I get so tired of the idea that it should be aborted because it MIGHT have a crap life. Well what if it doesn't? You never know unless you have a chance, and a life is a chance. Also if you go around thinking people with less than perfect situations in their life might as well be dead, then about 80% of the population of the world might as well crawl off and die, including me.

You may be saying " I don't beliieve in abortion, but who are we to push our beliefes on others? That's just wrong! It's a woman's choice and a woman's choice only!!!" you can kiss my lilly white arse. Are you telling me that you truly believe that abortion is murder, but you don't think it's right to push that beliefe on others? Do you believe what's right and wrong is totally and completely relative, depending on a person's beliefes? How can you honestly tell me that abortion is murder and say that it's a woman's choice? Murder is wrong under ANY circumstance. Period.

That position pisses me off and I even find it laughable how noble people think it is. To me, it's the same as saying "I'd never kill my wife, I believe in my heart it's wrong, but if OJ wants to kill his wife, who am I to judge? That's his choice!" Allowing someone else the 'choice' of ending a life is also wrong, I cannot condone it on those grounds.

 

[indra]

I don't care what you do with YOUR body, piercings, tatoos, shave your head, cut yourself with glass, streak at a football game it's your business. I don't even oppose assisted suicide if that's what an adult decides for his or herself. But abortion involves someone else's body too, not just the mother's.

I'm going to try not to rant, but the thing that bothers me most is it being justified as a 'choice' and a 'right.' I don't see there should be any more right to kill an unborn child because it's an inconvenience to you than I believe a person should be able to eliminate an ex spouse, rotten boss or nosey neighbor for making their life a living hell. The term 'right to choose' does not fly with me.

The only time it should be legal is rape and incest, and surely the female knows when that occured and should take a morning after pill (and file a police report on the assailant, morning after pill for forgotten birth control and passionate night before too), if the mother's health is in danger, or if the baby is found to have such severe deformities it will die anyway after suffering. In any case, I agree that partial birth abortion is completely evil, murder most henious (cut the spinal cord, suck out the brain, crush the skull) and should never be done, and yes doctors should be considered murderers for doing this. Sorry, I know a lot of you will hate me for saying this, but I feel very strongly that life is precious and not disposible for reasons of someone's inconvenience. I also don't subcribe to the 'better off dead' theory, might as well kill it now it might have a crap life. You never know. To live is to hope. I don't even believe that for dogs and cats at the pound, and I don't believe it for human babies.

On the subject of back alley/driving underground, remember that most of that happened in the time when there were no birth control pills or most of the contraceptives we have today.

I also want to say that it's not a question of religion for me, it's just common sense right and wrong.

You have a right to your opinion, but what you believe is "common sense right and wrong" isn't what everyone believes. You don't have the right to push your opinions, whether they are based on religious belief or not, on anyone else. You opinions are no more valid than mine.

 

[shart1780]

You have a right to your opinion, but what you believe is "common sense right and wrong" isn't what everyone believes. You don't have the right to push your opinions, whether they are based on religious belief or not, on anyone else. You opinions are no more valid than mine.

I disagree. I believe opinions are more valid when backed with evidence and logic. Logic is universal, it isn't relative. Also, I don't care what you accept as true as long as it's only effecting you, but when you're affecting an innocent human you need to be questioned, wheather you believe it's right or not.

I don't think someone's life should merely be based off of a "well, I don't feel that way, sorry. I can't give you any reasons backed by fact or anything... I just don't feel the same way you do."

 

[indra]

According to who? In the Jewish faith, the mother and child are one entity until the child is born. The soul does not even enter the embryo until 40 days after conception for males and 80 days after conception for females.

At the risk of seeming like a smartass (yeah, I know, what else is new).... Sharky, does the soul entering the male 40 day after conception, but not entering the female until 80 days after conception mean that males are merely half as complex as females?

 

[U2Kitten]

Worst of all I hate to see people endorse that opinion because they want to do it anyway and not feel guilty so they convince themselves they're not wrong, people are wrong for telling them they're wrong. What I mean by common sense is, it's alive, you kill it, it's dead, therefore murder, therefore wrong, end of story. And, as my best friend's bumper sticker says, if it's not really a baby, you're not really pregnant!

My best friend has no children because her husband was injured at is unable to father children. They have not been able to adopt because thanks to abortion (and of course more girls keeping their babies due to reduced stigma) there are hardly any babies available for adoption, only affluent people can afford them now. You even need to be affluent to afford to arrange an adoption of a Romanian orphan. Adoption is a beautiful choice and it's a shame more babies and couples aren't given that chance.

 

[caroltheone]

For myself, it is wrong. However, I believe a woman has the right to choose what is right or wrong for her. She will have to live with consequences of her actions.

 

[starsgoblue]

A lot of birth control pills are 100% effective scientifically. User error is why it sometimes doesn't work. If someone is really that concerned with getting pregnant, BOTH partners should each use some form of birth control (like a condom AND the pill).

NO, I repeat NO method of BC is 100% effective. User error does have some to do with it...but no method is entirely failsafe.

 

[starsgoblue]

And don't use the "but you've never had the experience of having to possibly change your life for a baby" bit. I have. My girlfriend and I stupidly had sex (with a condom) when I was 17 and we had a HUGE pregnancy scare. The pregnancy test either lied to us or she had a miscarriage. I was planning on completely taking responsibility for our baby. Moving to another city by myself, working full time and going to college while still trying to find time for our baby. I know how crappy and completely terrfying but it's far from impossible. I was also willing to take full responsibility for my baby not only because I had to, but because I LOVED it. I wanted that baby and I was willing to change my entire life for it. The majority of people who have children are completely capable of caring for them. The problem isn't that they can't, it's just that they're irrisponsible and selfish, and don't want to sacrifice their plans for another person.

I want to applaud you.

You have no idea how many calls I get from women that are terrified because a)they have an unplanned pregnancy and b)their husband or boyfriend are trying to force them to abort. I even get calls from men. They can talk all they want about how they want her to "get rid of 'it'". But when I ask them, "Do you realize that this is YOUR child. That's a part of YOU growing in her, that isn't an IT"---they don't have much to argue against. It just saddens me when men pressure women to do things like this. Abortion is a physcially and emotionally trying procedure whether or not you feel ok about the choice for it--the fact is that it is an intense procedure. It's easy to tell a woman to deal with it, rather than try and support her in her trial.

 

[indra]

Also, don't tell me it's your choice because it's your body. That's a crap reason. The reason someone has a baby in their stomach is because they made THE CHOICE to have sex!! (except in maybe about 0.001% of the time). If you have a baby it's your fault.

Baby's come from a woman's stomach? Hmmm... I didn't know that.

 

[FullonEdge2]

It bothers me when people say: "It's my body, I have a right to do what I want with it."

Does that mean we have the right to murder other people with our bodies? No, we don't.

Last time I checked, muerte is illegal around these parts.

 

[namkcuR]

I'll be short and to the point: The government should stay the hell out of the womb. It is a woman's choice. Perhaps her partner's as well. But for a woman, this is one of the hardest, most painful, most private decisions they will ever make. And the government has absolutely, positively, no right at all to be taking ANY kind of part in a decision that is THAT private. Pro-choice. Period.