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Old 10-19-2004, 07:34 PM   #196
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Originally posted by anitram


To be honest with you, I've never given this particular idea any thought. It just hasn't crossed my mind.

I'm assuming you are referring to say, a fetus within the first trimester? No, I would not consider it to be murder in that case, as the child is not viable. If the woman dies, then I would consider it murder, and if she survives, I guess I would see it as some type of assault (I'm not really familiar with the criminal system, don't know the jargon, sorry).
So you don't think a couple who were expecting their first child should be able to sue a person for murder, who through some physical act caused the death of their first trimester baby/fetus?

If technology one day makes it possible for a fetus to be viable from the point of conception, would you consider it a life?
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:49 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


To be honest with you, I've never given this particular idea any thought. It just hasn't crossed my mind.

I'm assuming you are referring to say, a fetus within the first trimester? No, I would not consider it to be murder in that case, as the child is not viable. If the woman dies, then I would consider it murder, and if she survives, I guess I would see it as some type of assault (I'm not really familiar with the criminal system, don't know the jargon, sorry).
So you don't believe in abortions after the first trimester?
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:50 PM   #198
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Abortion is a big issue, there's no doubting that, but if a woman became pregnant through rape or incest or if she or the child were in danger from the praganacy, I feel that it is the choice is with the woman. Tough subject. Cheers.
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:53 PM   #199
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Originally posted by shart1780


So you don't believe in abortions after the first trimester?
In cases where the fetus is not viable (ie. dead), or will not be born alive, or the mother's life is in danger, I support late-term abortions.

In regular (ie. most) cases, I would not support abortion once the fetus is viable outside of the womb.
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:54 PM   #200
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Originally posted by STING2


So you don't think a couple who were expecting their first child should be able to sue a person for murder, who through some physical act caused the death of their first trimester baby/fetus?
I think I already answered this rather clearly. As I said, I've not sat here for years thinking about this. Maybe I'll flip flop in a year.
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Old 10-19-2004, 08:19 PM   #201
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*If someone were to get in a vehicular accident with a woman, who is pregnant and in her first trimester, and she suffers a miscarriage, is it murder?
*If a man were to hit a woman in the stomach while she was in her first trimester of pregnancy and resulted in miscarriage, is that murder as well?

I don't know, I have never heard of them before.
As they do in courts, if you believe this is murder, please give me a date and the case number and an actual case that is similar to these scenarios.

As for men answering these questions, I get queasy, sorry. Let's have males squeeze out a watermelon out of a hole the size of a plum and let's see how their views change.
I think the only exception for men having a say with what women want to do with their bodies is if they are the biological father and they will take full care of the child, physically and financially, if the mother cannot.
I really don't and can't see what gives men right to control our decisions. Especially over women they don't even know and children that aren't theirs...
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Old 10-19-2004, 08:27 PM   #202
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I do not thing that such actions constitute murder murder, it certainly makes the crime a lot more awful and should warrant severe punishment but to give it the legal definition of murder is really a step towards naming abortion murder and frankly that is a slippery slope.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:10 PM   #203
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I do not thing that such actions constitute murder murder, it certainly makes the crime a lot more awful and should warrant severe punishment but to give it the legal definition of murder is really a step towards naming abortion murder and frankly that is a slippery slope.
When I say murder in the context of abortion I know I'm not talking about legal murder. I'm thinking of what I view murder as. Killing an innocent human.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:17 PM   #204
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But that "killing an innocent human" would no doubt be a reason to outlaw abortion, which is where I am coming from - when the morality police begin to wedge their beliefs into the law it is the first step towards a higher degree of influence.

Abortion is awful and not to be taken lightly - there must be more education on the matter to allow for proper public discourse and better choice, open education will do more for the situation than having people who know that they are right come in and scream at eachother.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:19 PM   #205
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This is one of my opinions on the issue. I think the term "pro-choice" should never have been attached to this whole discourse. It is misleading. Some believe the foetus has a choice. In some cases, the woman who "chooses" to have an abortion is actually forced to do so by social circumstances: eg how many fathers/grandmothers of these unborn pressured the mother into aborting?

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Old 10-20-2004, 08:11 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtal
*If someone were to get in a vehicular accident with a woman, who is pregnant and in her first trimester, and she suffers a miscarriage, is it murder?
*If a man were to hit a woman in the stomach while she was in her first trimester of pregnancy and resulted in miscarriage, is that murder as well?

I don't know, I have never heard of them before.
As they do in courts, if you believe this is murder, please give me a date and the case number and an actual case that is similar to these scenarios.

As for men answering these questions, I get queasy, sorry. Let's have males squeeze out a watermelon out of a hole the size of a plum and let's see how their views change.
I think the only exception for men having a say with what women want to do with their bodies is if they are the biological father and they will take full care of the child, physically and financially, if the mother cannot.
I really don't and can't see what gives men right to control our decisions. Especially over women they don't even know and children that aren't theirs...


Its called feiticide.
Keeler v. Superior Court of Amador County, 87 Cal.Rptr. 481, 470 P.2d 617 (1970)

Whitner v. State, No. 2446 (S.C. Oct 27,1997) the Supreme Court of South Carolina held that a viable fetus was a "person" for the purposes of the state's child neglect statute.
Oklahoma's Court of Criminal Appeals (7-0) in Hughes v. State, 868 P.2d 730 (Okl.Cr. 1994), all held that generally-worded homicide statutes applied to viable fetuses.

Section 609.266-2691 of the Minnesota Code


etc. etc.
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