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Old 10-17-2004, 11:07 AM   #181
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Science does not say that human life begins at conception. Development begins at conception. A lot of things I have read say that 26 weeks is when human life begins, but again this is not proven it's based on the development of the fetus.
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:50 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissMoo
Science does not say that human life begins at conception. Development begins at conception. A lot of things I have read say that 26 weeks is when human life begins, but again this is not proven it's based on the development of the fetus.

The life cycle itself begins when an egg is fertilized and attaches itself to the uterine wall. Any diagram that illustrates the human life cycle shows that. It's not like I'm making this up...

Also, there are babies that are born at 6 months after conception! That is roughly 24 weeks, two weeks less than whatever literature you have read states. Babies born at this stage have been known to survive. I know someone who is alive and well today and they were born right at 6 months after conception.

Carrie
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Old 10-17-2004, 05:27 PM   #183
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Generally, I would consider "life" in terms of a fetus to be the time at which a fetus is able to survive outside the womb as an independent entity. A fetus cannot survive outside the womb at 10 weeks or 12 weeks or 17 weeks, etc.

And babies which are born very prematurely (also look at the famous quintuplet cases) on average tend have an incredible multitude of problems, including seizures, cerebral palsy, muscular and degenerative disorders, developmental problems, lower IQs, lower birth weight, higher incidence of asthma, etc. There are real and serious consequences to being born very prematurely, and oftentimes, years of pain and suffering to follow.

It is a shame that fertility programs today are unable to restrict the number of implanted embryos. The human uterus is not meant to carry 5, 6, 7 babies, and it's unsafe for both the mother and the children.
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:17 AM   #184
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At what age can a child survive as an independent entity (without adult care & supervision)?
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:28 AM   #185
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Am I the only here that coulda possibly been an abortion if it wasn't for someone sticking up for me?? My dad didn't want me...my mother refused to listen to him.
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:27 AM   #186
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i suppose i could have been a potential abortion. my biological mother was 15 when she had me and gave me up for adoption. i cannot imagine how hard this must have been for her, and i have a huge amount of respect for her strength to make this decision.

as i stated above, (as much as i hate to use the label) i am pro-choice. not pro-abortion or pro-death, but pro-CHOICE. i do not think abortion is great--i think it's a necessary evil. ideally, we would live in a world where no one was forced to have sex or be pregnant against her will, where there would be no need for abortion. but that's just not our reality. women find themselves in these situations everyday, and i support and respect their ability to chose what's best--be that keeping the child, giving it up for adoption, or aborting the pregnancy. the state does not have the right to remove this choice.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:54 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissMoo
Science does not say that human life begins at conception. Development begins at conception. A lot of things I have read say that 26 weeks is when human life begins, but again this is not proven it's based on the development of the fetus.
For the sake of arguement, say I agree with this statement.

However, science does say that the heart of this developing fetus begins beating at 25 days after conception. It is hard to imagine that anything with a heart beat does not have life.

So before most women have missed their first period, their fetus's heart has begun to beat.
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Old 10-18-2004, 02:30 PM   #188
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My point is that if no one can be absolutely sure that it isn't a life what right do they have to take it away?
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Old 10-18-2004, 07:53 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
At what age can a child survive as an independent entity (without adult care & supervision)?
You are picking split ends here, nbc.

I'm saying that a fetus is not a biologically viable entity. It cannot survive outside of the womb for 1 second.

A child can. Yes, it needs nourishment, and yes it needs supervision, but if left unattended for a second, it is a living, breathing entity with fully developed organs capable of carrying out the simplest metabolic functions of life.
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Old 10-19-2004, 05:48 AM   #190
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If we are trying to define"life" based on an organisms ability to survive independent of another, the birth (or some point slightly earlier) seems to be only a convenient dividing line.
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:37 AM   #191
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I'm going to slip in my 2 cents here. This issue is a hot one for me. Lemme just say that even though this sounds extremely intolerant I am simply here to register my vote on a poin-blank question. I'm not here to have my views changed or to explain why I feel the way I feel. I am simply here to state what I feel and nothing more. I am pro-life...there we go.
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:26 PM   #192
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Abortion is violence against women. Ask all the women now dealing with post-abortion traumatic stress. led astray by the lie that abortion can ever be about "choice".
It's a baby, plain and simple.
Women need empowerment, not a society that mentally and physically allows them to kill their unborn children. It is evil that a baby cannot be safe in it's own mother's womb.

"When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?"
- Mother Theresa

BTW, Since when??? has saving a life been about pushing religious beliefs? AND if it is then call me 'religious'.
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Old 10-19-2004, 03:16 PM   #193
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Another interesting fact:

In reality an abortion is defined as killing a baby that would be unable to survive in the first place. So what we view as abortion isn't REALLY abortion.
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:16 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


You are picking split ends here, nbc.

I'm saying that a fetus is not a biologically viable entity. It cannot survive outside of the womb for 1 second.

A child can. Yes, it needs nourishment, and yes it needs supervision, but if left unattended for a second, it is a living, breathing entity with fully developed organs capable of carrying out the simplest metabolic functions of life.
Do you think it is right for a women to be able to sue( on ground of manslaughter or murder) another person who caused this "non-biologically viable entity" to perish as a result of actions taken on purpose or accidently by that person? If a person were to hit a women with "non-biologically viable entity" in her womb and cause the entity to die, have they committed murder?

It is interesting to note that in such cases people have been tried for murder and manslaughter. If the entity's were indeed not lives, why the charges of murder and manslaughter?
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:20 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Do you think it is right for a women to be able to sue( on ground of manslaughter or murder) another person who caused this "non-biologically viable entity" to perish as a result of actions taken on purpose or accidently by that person?
To be honest with you, I've never given this particular idea any thought. It just hasn't crossed my mind.

I'm assuming you are referring to say, a fetus within the first trimester? No, I would not consider it to be murder in that case, as the child is not viable. If the woman dies, then I would consider it murder, and if she survives, I guess I would see it as some type of assault (I'm not really familiar with the criminal system, don't know the jargon, sorry).
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