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Old 07-23-2007, 02:12 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
sin is a concept that people in positions of power use to increase their power over the relatively powerless, and the reason why sin works so well is that an ultimate, unquestionable authority is invoked -- God -- and an ultimate, unquestionable rule book is sourced -- the Bible -- and dissenters are easily dismissed.
but aren't some people in power frowned upon in the bible?
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:35 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


but aren't some people in power frowned upon in the bible?
yes, and Jesus was/is for the powerless, and the bible talks many times about how pride can be damaging.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:14 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


but aren't some people in power frowned upon in the bible?


who tells us these things?

we're talking about sin, though, not the "Jesus message."

how better do you placate the unwashed masses with the whole, "meek shall inherit the earth" stuff? how else do people live with startling economic inequality in a country where the top 1% receives more income than the bottom 40%?
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:21 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brunette89


yes, and Jesus was/is for the powerless, and the bible talks many times about how pride can be damaging.
whoops, this was written from my old account and username. stupid internet browser
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:29 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




who tells us these things?

we're talking about sin, though, not the "Jesus message."

how better do you placate the unwashed masses with the whole, "meek shall inherit the earth" stuff? how else do people live with startling economic inequality in a country where the top 1% receives more income than the bottom 40%?
but...i don't think the concept of sin itself is meant to scare people into submission or anything.

if you consider "sin" to be retranslated to mean "disharmony" and "evil" to mean "unripe" then i think that speaks more to an awareness rather than a code to obey. the unripe means there's just more to learn about ourselves, about each other, about how we all fit together as gears in the big clock of life.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


but...i don't think the concept of sin itself is meant to scare people into submission or anything.

if you consider "sin" to be retranslated to mean "disharmony" and "evil" to mean "unripe" then i think that speaks more to an awareness rather than a code to obey. the unripe means there's just more to learn about ourselves, about each other, about how we all fit together as gears in the big clock of life.


then why don't we use the words "disharmony" and "evil" and whatever else .. bad?

i think the word "sin" has a specific religious connotation in order to give more "weight" to whatever action we might be talking about, to make it appear worse than others, or at least more *shameful* than others. because God knows what you do even if others don't. and God doesn't like that. God, that great big shaming parent in the sky.

which is why sex lends itself so well to sin, and why so much of conservative christianity seems obsessed with sexual "sins" above all others.

i have no use for concepts of sin. i'm more worried if my actions are harmful to other human beings, or myself, than whether or not God would care. i'll deal with him later. it's other people i care about while i'm flesh and blood.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:25 PM   #97
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I do think it's somewhat dancing around the concept to not spell out as precisely as possible, depending on which doctrines one subscribes to, what the implied consequences are taken to be.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:35 PM   #98
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Originally posted by yolland
I do think it's somewhat dancing around the concept to not spell out as precisely as possible, depending on which doctrines one subscribes to, what the implied consequences are taken to be.


that's another interesting component.

a "sin" seems to have been wrong since time began, that people committed "sins" in Biblical time in nearly precisely the same manner in which they do today, that a "sin" is unteathered from historical context. it is always wrong, has always been wrong, will always be wrong, and there's no arguing with it. and, as such, the consequences aren't just faced here on earth, but they will reverberate throughout the endless life of your (assumed) immortal soul.

what a powerful concept.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:47 PM   #99
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there is no such thing as sin. its a bogeyman story to keep people on their toes, thats all.

while we are at it, there is no hell either. what kind of a sick, twisted god would first give you free will and then send you to hell cause you wont do what he wants but decide to sin, sin, sin? let me tell you: the kind that doesnt exist.

and thats the word.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:25 PM   #100
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'Sin' stocks have been great moneymakers for a long time. Phillip Morris, Budweiser/Diageo, McDonalds, Harrah's, Smith & Wesson? There doesn't seem to be an end to their returns.....does that say something about society?
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:48 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I do think it's somewhat dancing around the concept to not spell out as precisely as possible, depending on which doctrines one subscribes to.

the self professed religious people should list what

sins are?

and what the consequences are?

and how they would behave differently regarding these sins
if they no longer held their religious beliefs? (shart, said he would become a psychopath , me, I became a better person )



because I do participate in the "sin" concept

I do not see Murder as a sin

I see it as a crime

to be dealt with by living people in this world


I do not look for God
to mead out the ultimate justice (if that does happen, it is beyond what we can be involved with)
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:17 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
there is no such thing as sin. its a bogeyman story to keep people on their toes, thats all.

while we are at it, there is no hell either. what kind of a sick, twisted god would first give you free will and then send you to hell cause you wont do what he wants but decide to sin, sin, sin? let me tell you: the kind that doesnt exist.

and thats the word.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:30 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want

while we are at it, there is no hell either. what kind of a sick, twisted god would first give you free will and then send you to hell cause you wont do what he wants but decide to sin, sin, sin? let me tell you: the kind that doesnt exist.

and thats the word.
Your word, perhaps.

If you read the scriptures, you'll find that hell was not created for humanity but rather for fallen angels. However, as my pastor points out, while Hell was not created for us, God will not stop us from going there if we are bent on doing so.

Free will means that we can do what we want, and go where we want. Whether that's Heaven or Hell is up to us.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:49 AM   #104
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I absolutely reject the concept of hell.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:56 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I absolutely reject the concept of hell.
I've never quite been able to wrap my head around the idea that a so-called loving God would toss his children into the so-called burning fires of hell for disobeying. It's a completely insane idea to me. "God is love" and yet will burn his children for eternity?
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