What if (this view of)God is right? - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2005, 09:11 PM   #91
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:17 AM
I find it crazy that Christians spend so much time trying to prove the most ridiculous and trivial passages in the Bible, but when it comes to pivotal, relevant passages such as "love one another," "turn the other cheek," and "judge not lest you be judged," where is the zeal in trying to get everyone to follow and believe these?

The origin of the Earth, whether via 7/24 literal creationism or 13 billion year evolution, ultimately, is morally irrelevant. Who the fuck cares? And the same goes for that bloody "flood." If it happened or didn't happen (and I'm fairly confident it didn't), the world has clearly moved on.

I think that conservative Christians purposely pick the most preposterous of stories to defend in the Bible just to pick fights with "liberals" and "non-believers." Everyone enjoys a good argument.

So here's a "fun" one to argue: in the Bible, a rapist and his victim are to be married. Now discuss!

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:19 AM   #92
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 01:17 AM
This has been so much fun. Se7en, I appreciate your point of view man. I do. And Melon's right, we could go back and forth on the issue of the flood which isn't even a part of the Bible's central message. And Melon, you're absolutely right in saying that there needs to be more discussion on Christ's teachings on love, humility and care toward others. However, I don't know that there's much that we would disagree on with that for a debate. My hope is that you'll find evidence of my devotion to those teachings in posts of mine in FYM. I try to make that the foundation of everything I do. (and yes, I fail at it sometimes.) On the other hand, it's just fun to argue and debate the other stuff in the Bible. I enjoy it and I enjoy hearing where other people are at.

To Se7en, I strongly encourage you (and everyone else here) to check out "Case for Christ," and "Case for Faith." And I'm honestly not just saying that so you'll "be converted" or whatever. It's not my job to convert people as a Christian. I'll leave that up to God. I do, however, strive to give people a more complete picture of Christ to help them come to their own conclusions of who he is, and often times this doens't include the Christian perspective, oddly enough.

You said "Before I even read it, I have to wonder, if this is some amazing work of proof that Jesus did indeed exist AND was also the divine son of God, why doesn't anyone care? Why aren't Biblical historians shouting from the rooftops that they have proof of Jesus and his divinity?"
The truth is millions of people do care and Biblical historians are shouting from the rooftops and have been for a long time. Numerous books have been written on this stuff. In fact, Josh McDowell's "More Than a Carpenter," which is similar to "The Case for Christ," although not as thorough, has 10 million copies in print. "The Case for Christ" in its relatively short time in print has sold 2 million copies. These are just two books. On Amazon.com it says "The Case for Christ" cites 70 other books!
Also, Strobel's questioning in "The Case for Christ" is extremely thorough and firm. Trust me, as a reporter myself, he asked the tough questions and demanded complete answers. Like I said, he started out as an atheist and was pissed his wife became a Christian so he set out to prove it, and her, wrong by using his skills as a crime reporter. He's now a pastor.
Be your own judge and critic of the book.

And why is all this so important to me? Like I said, I'm not out to convert you, but as a Christian, I'm not going to shy away from defending Christ. In the end, we all have a reaction to Christ. I just try to give people as much information in favor of him because I know him to be who he said he is.
Here's to quotes by C.S. Lewis to chew on that sum it all up for me using simple logic.

"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a good moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great moral teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
__________________

__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:30 AM   #93
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en
if you would have read the link the coemgen provided containing an explanation of the flood story, you would know that the world used to be relatively flat and that after the flood, god summoned the ocean basins into existance to collect all of the surface water. duh.
If that's the explanation, it's even more preposterous than I thought. So did all the saltwater species spontaneously pop out of nowhere then? Secondly, it takes a long time for a body of water to develop salinity. The Great Lakes are an excellent example: they are less than 10,000 years old themselves, as they are the result of the retreating glaciers of the last Ice Age. They will become salty too someday, but it takes a long, long time. As such, the oceans are as "old" as scientists claim: millions and millions of years old.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:40 AM   #94
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:17 AM
In response to Melon's post above, which left me speechless for a while, I think from time to time you have to do the research for skeptics. People with doubts could ask "Well, how do you know this is possible?" If it's all a lie, what would the point of believing it be? Shouldn't we be out gratifying our egos if our lives have no purpose? But you're right about living the message - that it should come first in line.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 10:00 AM   #95
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
In response to Melon's post above, which left me speechless for a while, I think from time to time you have to do the research for skeptics. People with doubts could ask "Well, how do you know this is possible?" If it's all a lie, what would the point of believing it be? Shouldn't we be out gratifying our egos if our lives have no purpose? But you're right about living the message - that it should come first in line.
I find it preposterous to give creedence to ancient creation myths, which all cultures had, including the Jews. People want "answers," granted, but they also had no means to get those "answers." So they had simple stories that invariably end up being "morality tales." That is, it's *your* fault for all these things happening, you dirty dirty people!

Fast forward 2500 years, we have the scientific method to get those "answers" about the world and universe around us. I don't fault the people of 2500 years ago of writing those stories. They did the best they could to fulfill people's demands for answers, just as everyone from African tribes to the Chinese to Native Americans did back then. I do fault the people of today for still clinging to these stories in light of the fact that we have better methods. The acknowledgment of science, contrary to popular opinion, is not the denial of God! Science may eventually be able to pinpoint where, when, and how the universe was created, but they will never be able to answer "why" it was created to begin with. That's where religion comes in.

Coming up with over-elaborate explanations for every little bit of the Bible, no matter how ridiculous and irrelevant those passages are, morally-speaking, only serve to make Christianity look "crazy." But I know. Sometime between the Reformation and the present, we saw the rise of "fundamentalism," so we have those who have an agenda to serve just so they don't have to acknowledge that some parts of the Bible may, indeed, be mythic in nature, and, as such, disprove the entire concept of "fundamentalism."

I'm sorry. I'm not in the business of defending orthodoxy for the sake of it. I'm interested in pursuing the truth and what has really happened, outside of neat-and-tidy categories (and that includes religion, along with politics, along with philosophy, etc.). The nature of God is all around us and is present in science, which all works in patterns and cycles for a reason. The question I ponder, though, is what that "reason" is. In short, "the meaning of life."

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 06:29 PM   #96
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 01:17 AM
"I find it crazy that Christians spend so much time trying to prove the most ridiculous and trivial passages in the Bible, but when it comes to pivotal, relevant passages such as "love one another," "turn the other cheek," and "judge not lest you be judged," where is the zeal in trying to get everyone to follow and believe these?

The origin of the Earth, whether via 7/24 literal creationism or 13 billion year evolution, ultimately, is morally irrelevant. Who the fuck cares? And the same goes for that bloody "flood." If it happened or didn't happen (and I'm fairly confident it didn't), the world has clearly moved on.

I think that conservative Christians purposely pick the most preposterous of stories to defend in the Bible just to pick fights with "liberals" and "non-believers." Everyone enjoys a good argument.

So here's a "fun" one to argue: in the Bible, a rapist and his victim are to be married. Now discuss!"

Melon



I'm in here quick and have not read posts past the one from Melon.


This is my short reply to Melon's statements.

"I find it crazy that Christians..."


So? I guess you mean all Christians?


"but when it comes to pivotal, relevant passages such as "love one another," "turn the other cheek," and "judge not lest you be judged," where is the zeal in trying to get everyone to follow and believe these?"


I agree. Jesus said why do you say you love me and do not do what I comand.

That is something that bothers me also.


"I think that conservative Christians purposely pick the most preposterous of stories to defend in the Bible just to pick fights with "liberals" and "non-believers."


I see more attacks on Christian on boards than I see Christians flaming others for their beliefs. This prevalent and popular view that "the evil Christian fundamentalists" are trashing other people's beliefs is a myth.

Please post one you have read on this board.


"Now discuss!"


Yes
__________________
the iron horse is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:38 PM   #97
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
"I find it crazy that Christians..."

So? I guess you mean all Christians?
It's as sweeping as "all liberals hate America." So extrapolate from there.

Quote:
I agree. Jesus said why do you say you love me and do not do what I command.

That is something that bothers me also.
From the Pauline POV, Jesus' sole "commandment" was "love." I think there's certainly not enough of that going around. "Pagans love their neighbors," so it is the task for Christians to love people who fit outside their demographic as well.

Quote:
"I think that conservative Christians purposely pick the most preposterous of stories to defend in the Bible just to pick fights with "liberals" and "non-believers."

I see more attacks on Christian on boards than I see Christians flaming others for their beliefs. This prevalent and popular view that "the evil Christian fundamentalists" are trashing other people's beliefs is a myth.

Please post one you have read on this board.
There is more to this world than this board. This is mainly what I see in the real world, especially when it comes to people demanding creationism to be taught instead of evolution in "science class," despite "science" having disproven creationism decades ago. Some have even gone as far as to say that those who believe in "intelligent design" (God-driven evolution) are weak non-believers.

Then there's all this nonsense about expeditions to try and retrieve Noah's Ark. Absolutely ridiculous, considering 1) it doesn't exist, and 2) it would have rotted many centuries ago.

I don't know. It seems like the world has gone mad sometimes.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com