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Old 12-14-2006, 12:54 PM   #91
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I agree, I'm just sick of "believers" who place limits on God due to geography or upbringing...
What do you mean exactly? (I'm not challenging you, just wanting to know more about where your coming from. I agree with you -- even though you may or may not be taking a jab at me. )
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:02 PM   #92
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Originally posted by coemgen


What do you mean exactly? (I'm not challenging you, just wanting to know more about where your coming from. I agree with you -- even though you may or may not be taking a jab at me. )
No jab.

Just take a look in here. Some posters say if you are Muslim or if you are _____ you will go to hell. Well how many Muslims are Muslim due to where they live or how they grew up? What about those that have never heard of Christ?

Why do so many want to limit God's power? It makes no sense to me.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:08 PM   #93
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Surely you saw that episode of Bullshit where they went after Ghandi, Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama.


indeed i did.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:10 PM   #94
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It doesn't make sense. You're right. I seriously believe though that God works in our hearts and in our lives to point us toward him. First, I believe there's a part of each of us almost built for that relationship with him. Almost like a parent/child relationship. And what you said above -- pisses me off too as a Christian. There are Muslim nations or groups that hide or cover up anything Christian to simply prevent exposure to it. As a Christian, if all of it is true, I believe they'll be judged for that. I also believe God will take into account the circumstances the regular people affected by that are in. On the other hand, I think Christians who don't "spread the word" will be held accountable, too. However, the point is (and I think part of what you're getting at) God doesn't need us to make him famous. (He wants us to for the benefits we receive through it.) He can do that on his own. And I think in many ways he has. I think some of it's taken for granted though.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:59 PM   #95
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Originally posted by coemgen
There are Muslim nations or groups that hide or cover up anything Christian to simply prevent exposure to it. As a Christian, if all of it is true, I believe they'll be judged for that. I also believe God will take into account the circumstances the regular people affected by that are in.


so, let's take an Indian immigrant to the US.

he's a Hindu. has been one his whole life. he understands it, it's as natural to him as breathing. he moves to the US where he is certainly exposed to Christianity. he still prefers his Hindusim. he was raised with it. it's his culture, his language, his worldview. he doesn't convert, not even when Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses come to the door. he sees no reason to, and many of the tenets of Christianity don't make sense to him, and he also sees the political manifestations of some stripes of Christianity and is totally turned off. Christ is okay, but his followers? no thank you. on the whole, he respects Christians, but he's a Hindu. born and raised. as strong in his faith as any Christian he knows is in theirs (a difference, though, is that he doesn't push his beliefs on anyone).

is he still fucked when he dies?
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:15 PM   #96
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to most christians yes.

to this christian and God absolutely not.

i will explain later.

dbs
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:35 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




so, let's take an Indian immigrant to the US.

he's a Hindu. has been one his whole life. he understands it, it's as natural to him as breathing. he moves to the US where he is certainly exposed to Christianity. he still prefers his Hindusim. he was raised with it. it's his culture, his language, his worldview. he doesn't convert, not even when Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses come to the door. he sees no reason to, and many of the tenets of Christianity don't make sense to him, and he also sees the political manifestations of some stripes of Christianity and is totally turned off. Christ is okay, but his followers? no thank you. on the whole, he respects Christians, but he's a Hindu. born and raised. as strong in his faith as any Christian he knows is in theirs (a difference, though, is that he doesn't push his beliefs on anyone).

is he still fucked when he dies?
I can't answer that question. That's between him and God.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:24 PM   #98
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Which is the better thing:

1. To know Jesus and the life He offers, believe that it's offered to everyone, and believe it so much that you're willing to go to countries where few if any even know of His grace and tell them about it;
2. To know Jesus and the life He offers, believe that it's offered to everyone, but demand that people from countries where few if any even know of His grace come to a Western country to learn about it?
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:26 PM   #99
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Originally posted by nathan1977
Which is the better thing:

1. To know Jesus and the life He offers, believe that it's offered to everyone, and believe it so much that you're willing to go to countries where few if any even know of His grace and tell them about it;
2. To know Jesus and the life He offers, believe that it's offered to everyone, but demand that people from countries where few if any even know of His grace come to a Western country to learn about it?
How is that even a question? I'm confused as to what your point is in context with this discussion?
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:30 PM   #100
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People on this board complain about missionaries going to India to witness to the Indians we're all so concerned about -- whether they're simply serving the poor or sharing the good news. (1)
People on this board complain about Christians who sit fat and happy in America and say that it's too bad those Indians don't know Jesus like we do, 'cause they're going to Hell and damned if I'm going to do anything about it. (perception) (2)

Right now we're talking about a whole section of the world being written off by American Christians who say, "Too bad they don't have the relationship with God that we do." But if someone were to say, "I'm going to go to those people so that they have the chance of a relationship with God that I do," you'd be tarred and feathered here.

It's a little of damned if you do, damned if you don't, it seems...
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:16 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
It's a little of damned if you do, damned if you don't, it seems...
Reminds me of the age-old "faith vs. good works" debate.
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:50 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
People on this board complain about missionaries going to India to witness to the Indians we're all so concerned about -- whether they're simply serving the poor or sharing the good news. (1)
People on this board complain about Christians who sit fat and happy in America and say that it's too bad those Indians don't know Jesus like we do, 'cause they're going to Hell and damned if I'm going to do anything about it. (perception) (2)

Right now we're talking about a whole section of the world being written off by American Christians who say, "Too bad they don't have the relationship with God that we do." But if someone were to say, "I'm going to go to those people so that they have the chance of a relationship with God that I do," you'd be tarred and feathered here.

It's a little of damned if you do, damned if you don't, it seems...
Not really sure what this has to do with the context of this discussion, but I'm all for Christians who want to do mission work! More power to them.

But it does seem odd that people claim God is all powerful, yet they limit his power by geography. As Coemgen points out, no human is perfect, yet God is going to count on them to reach those hard to reach places? That's a lot of damned people.
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:51 PM   #103
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I believe God HAS forgiven everyone.

I believe everyone has a place in heaven.

However, I don't believe God will force people into heaven who don't want to go. We always assume everybody wants to go to heaven, but says who?

Another perspective on "No one comes to the father except through me": "Anyone who comes to the Father is coming through me, whether they know it or not." If you're choosing life, if your choosing truth as much as you can understand it, then you're choosing Christ. Just because there's only one lifeguard in the water doesn't mean that you have to know his name for him to save you from drowning.
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Old 12-14-2006, 11:14 PM   #104
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[Q]Another perspective on "No one comes to the father except through me": "Anyone who comes to the Father is coming through me, whether they know it or not." If you're choosing life, if your choosing truth as much as you can understand it, then you're choosing Christ. Just because there's only one lifeguard in the water doesn't mean that you have to know his name for him to save you from drowning.[/Q]

This may be the absolute BEST interpretation I have heard of this verse. It may sound silly, but I have not seen it interpreted like this.

I love it!
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Old 12-14-2006, 11:42 PM   #105
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Originally posted by maycocksean
I believe God HAS forgiven everyone.

I believe everyone has a place in heaven.

However, I don't believe God will force people into heaven who don't want to go. We always assume everybody wants to go to heaven, but says who?

Another perspective on "No one comes to the father except through me": "Anyone who comes to the Father is coming through me, whether they know it or not." If you're choosing life, if your choosing truth as much as you can understand it, then you're choosing Christ. Just because there's only one lifeguard in the water doesn't mean that you have to know his name for him to save you from drowning.
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