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Old 12-12-2006, 06:08 PM   #46
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According to the Rev. Carlton Pearson's "Gospel of Inclusion," we're all going to heaven. Period.

http://www.thislife.org/pages/descriptions/05/304.html

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/127/story_12772.html
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:09 PM   #47
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Sort of like the line in "City of Blinding Lights" . . .

"Blessings not just for the ones who kneel"
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:06 PM   #48
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Well, according to Jesus...

Matthew 25:41-46

41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:54 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anu
According to the Rev. Carlton Pearson's "Gospel of Inclusion," we're all going to heaven. Period.

http://www.thislife.org/pages/descriptions/05/304.html

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/127/story_12772.html
I am curious about this, but just got in from meetings. I will look at it when my mind is not fried. It sounds like what I was thinking based on your comments above.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:01 PM   #50
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Originally posted by MaxFisher
Well, according to Jesus...

Matthew 25:41-46

41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Yes, which would lead one to believe that our actions towards those in need count for a lot.

However, I again wonder how far does God's grace go. If I do the things you mention in Matthew, yet I still have lust in my heart, envy on the brain, and jeolousy.....

Does that forgiveness count?
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:34 PM   #51
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My thought is that God wouldn't let us get in over our heads.

I think you can repent in the next life; that life being either Paradise or Spirit Prison.

If you find yourself in Paradise there is no reason to repent as you're with God, if you find yourself in Spirit Prison where Christ went to after he was crucified for 3 days, in that place I think God's Grace will allow those to repent who are willling, it will not be a picnic however. From what I've read it will be much harder as we will not be able to handle our addictions and physical urges
as we will no longer have physical bodies to discipline and marshall our urges.

The key is to get your life in order here first. if you cannot or do not get your life in order on Earth, thru God's Grace, He is merciful and one will suffer in Hell ( Spirit Prison) until his sins are paid for to the utmost farthing ( because of what Christ did for us) and then he can progress towards the ressurection, what degree of glory or Kingdom the person will eventually land at is beween God and that person.

I believe God is just and merciful, and being that he is perfect we will know exactly where we stand, it will be a secret no more.

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Old 12-13-2006, 08:09 AM   #52
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Yes, which would lead one to believe that our actions towards those in need count for a lot.

However, I again wonder how far does God's grace go. If I do the things you mention in Matthew, yet I still have lust in my heart, envy on the brain, and jeolousy.....
The Gospel of Matthew was mostly Jewish Christian (and I've explained before all the Gentile Christian revisions, as scholars have identified multiple authors), so that would explain the emphasis on good works for salvation.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:19 AM   #53
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Essentially, Pearson argues that too many Christians have decided to put their finite dogma before the infinite divine, that the blessings of God's forgiveness are bigger than the bible -- and come before it and last after it, that God is a mystical redeemer not a master of revenge . . .

See Romans 5:12-21 for one biblical passage that Pearson uses when he preaches his version of what Bono calls grace trumping karma, every time, world without end, amen.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:29 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus


The Gospel of Matthew was mostly Jewish Christian (and I've explained before all the Gentile Christian revisions, as scholars have identified multiple authors), so that would explain the emphasis on good works for salvation.
I think scholars speculate or therorize that Matthew was written by many authors, I think it was written by Matthew himself

I think Grace and Works go hand in hand, like two blades in a pair of scissors.

Listen to what James wrote clearly explaining the necessity of Works after understanding Grace (Faith):

King James Version: James Chapter 2
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.


2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;


3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:


4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?


5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?


6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?


7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?


8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.


10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,


16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?


17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:14 PM   #55
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Jesus talks about the importance of fruit -- a dead tree can produce no fruit, but a living tree produces thirty, sixty, and a hundred fold. John brings up the notion that if you say you love God, whom you can't see, but can't love your brother, whom you can, then there's a huge disconnect between what you say and what you believe.

I'm not sure if it's the good works that's the important thing -- legalism is frowned on in scripture -- but the idea of fruit that can be measured in what we do is important.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:19 PM   #56
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can we love our brother but not God?
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:22 PM   #57
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not Godly love, but love of the world.

To love God one most love their neighbor whether that neighbor be:

fat
skinny
wealthy
poor
educated
uneducated
Muslim
Hindu
Straight
Gay
Redneck
Liberal

does that work?

dbs
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:07 PM   #58
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Originally posted by Irvine511
can we love our brother but not God?
Interesting question. It reminds me of the verse where Jesus says, "No greater love has a man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." Paul seems to pick up on that idea when he says, "No one will die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die." Since Jesus laid down his life not just for his friends but for his enemies, none of them righteous or good, it seems like there's a greater love out there -- a purely sacrificial one -- that most of us don't understand. I'd suggest that Jesus was implying the only way to love in its fullest extent is by receiving love from God...because there's definitely a limit to how much we can love as human beings.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:35 PM   #59
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Originally posted by Anu
Essentially, Pearson argues that too many Christians have decided to put their finite dogma before the infinite divine, that the blessings of God's forgiveness are bigger than the bible -- and come before it and last after it, that God is a mystical redeemer not a master of revenge . . .

See Romans 5:12-21 for one biblical passage that Pearson uses when he preaches his version of what Bono calls grace trumping karma, every time, world without end, amen.
If I make it to vacation, I will have to do some looking into this.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:37 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Ormus


The Gospel of Matthew was mostly Jewish Christian (and I've explained before all the Gentile Christian revisions, as scholars have identified multiple authors), so that would explain the emphasis on good works for salvation.
SO does this invalidate it to you, or signify a change of some sort.

I find myself to be more in line with James, than any of the other New Testament writers.
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