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Old 09-08-2005, 10:12 AM   #16
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This "shifting the blame game" going on with FEMA is ridiculous. The federal government has a crucial role to play in a deadly storm that practically wiped out towns in multiple states. It's called "passing the buck".
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:54 AM   #17
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here's an interesting little tidbit from reuters.

Quote:
Canadians Beat U.S. Army to New Orleans Suburb
A Canadian search-and-rescue team reached a flooded New Orleans suburb to help save trapped residents five days before the U.S. military, a Louisiana state senator said on Wednesday.

The Canadians beat both the Army and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the U.S. disaster response department, to St. Bernard Parish east of New Orleans, where flood waters are still 8 feet deep in places, Sen. Walter Boasso said.

"Fabulous, fabulous guys," Boasso said. "They started rolling with us and got in boats to save people."

"We've got Canadian flags flying everywhere."

The stricken parish of 68,000 people was largely ignored by U.S. authorities who scrambled to get aid to New Orleans, a few miles (km) away. Boasso said residents of the outlying parishes had to mount their own rescue and relief efforts when Hurricane Katrina roared ashore on August 29. rest of text here
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:10 PM   #18
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Good for them

It helps to see a map of the area and the scope of devastation to realize that more than New Orleans was hit.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
This "shifting the blame game" going on with FEMA is ridiculous. The federal government has a crucial role to play in a deadly storm that practically wiped out towns in multiple states. It's called "passing the buck".
Do you (or any of us) have a full picture of the pre-storm local/state/federal responsibilities?

We spent more energy on blame than solutions for those affected.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


We spent more energy on blame than solutions for those affected.
You can't find solutions until you identify the problem.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:27 PM   #21
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You can't find solutions until you identify the problem.
And as we gather facts, we will move closer to identifying the problem. But, in politics, waiting for facts means less time on the soapbox.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:38 PM   #22
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If the Clinton Administration {pre-monica} had responded the way Team Bush has, I'm sure that alot more would already be calling for his impeachment and the firing of Top Fema person.

BTW under Clinton he elevated FEMA to Cabinate Level status, it was Bush43 who took it back down.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


And as we gather facts, we will move closer to identifying the problem. But, in politics, waiting for facts means less time on the soapbox.
Why is responding and sharing information "being on the soapbox."

The majority of the people aren't saying, "Impeach Bush! Fire the governor!" We're saying, "This thing is really screwed up and someone messed up big time. We need to find out what went wrong or it's going to happen again."

I find the "let's sit tight and be quiet" point of view kind of ridiculous. People have been quiet about FEMA long enough, and look where that's got us.

Sorry if I don't believe in "just be patient and everything will be allright" at the moment.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzledbylight
If the Clinton Administration {pre-monica} had responded the way Team Bush has, I'm sure that alot more would already be calling for his impeachment and the firing of Top Fema person.

BTW under Clinton he elevated FEMA to Cabinate Level status, it was Bush43 who took it back down.

The "would have been worse for Clinton" arguments are without merit and are a good example of the polarization of our country.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by kellyahern


Why is responding and sharing information "being on the soapbox."

The majority of the people aren't saying, "Impeach Bush! Fire the governor!" We're saying, "This thing is really screwed up and someone messed up big time. We need to find out what went wrong or it's going to happen again."

I find the "let's sit tight and be quiet" point of view kind of ridiculous. People have been quiet about FEMA long enough, and look where that's got us.

Sorry if I don't believe in "just be patient and everything will be allright" at the moment.
I didn't say "responding and sharing information = being on a soapbox". I said it was political, and in another thread you seemed to acknowledge this point.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:31 PM   #26
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and this is why I'm not in the waiting mood:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9201397/

Quote:
“We have to wait and see what (Ophelia) is going to do. The possibilities are endless,” said Steve Letro, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Jacksonville.
The possibilities are endless he says . . . . yay!


Yes, I know this whole mess isn't going to get fixed by next week.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



The "would have been worse for Clinton" arguments are without merit
.
with all objectivity

you really believe this?
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I didn't say "responding and sharing information = being on a soapbox". I said it was political, and in another thread you seemed to acknowledge this point.
I guess whenever I see the words "let's just wait", it sounds a lot like the spin that is being put out by some members of the administration. As if the anger people feel isn't justified. Like people are asking, "Why are you so angry? Why can't you be more patient. Don't point fingers, etc."

The obvious political statements aren't helpful, I agree. But it seems that if anything is said that is skeptical of the administration, you take it to mean we are on a witch hunt. What if we think that things are really, really wrong? The statements that federal officials have made have not helped mattters. They just make me more untrusting.

For example:

this is stupid:
"Reid demanded to know how President Bush's vacation had impacted hurricane relief"

this is not:
"while House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., pressed for the sacking of FEMA Director Michael Brown.

"There were two disasters last week: first, the natural disaster, and second, the man-made disaster, the disaster made by mistakes made by FEMA," Pelosi said."

I think there's been plenty of evidence by both Republican and Democrats that they are unhappy with the job Brown is doing, he isn't qualified, has had problems in the past as the head of FEMA and needs to go.

Commenting on Bush's vacation, on the other hand, is just stirring up emotions and isn't very useful, imho.

and comments like this:
"While countless Americans are pulling together to lend a helping hand, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are pointing fingers in a shameless effort to tear us apart," Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman responded.

are also stupid. Even though I think Reid's comments are not useful, I don't think he's trying to "tear us apart." That's just political b.s.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:51 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I didn't say "responding and sharing information = being on a soapbox". I said it was political, and in another thread you seemed to acknowledge this point.
So do you think that those defending Bush are also doing so for "political" purposes?
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by kellyahern



Commenting on Bush's vacation, on the other hand, is just stirring up emotions and isn't very useful, imho.

I disagree strongly. Very strongly. It appears as if the deriliction of duty on behalf of nearly every top member of the Bush administration served only to worsen the crisis. We needed real, decisive leadership and decision making the most when it was absolutely nowhere to be found...
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