What did they expect to happen? (about chaos in Iraq) - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-18-2003, 04:18 PM   #46
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Wow, you honestly believe that? The entire contents of the Smithsonian museums, the Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial and Capitol Hill are "small potatoes"?

Speaking as someone who was lucky enough to spend a week in Washington DC and see all those things, I think they count as a little more than small potatoes.

I'm really shocked by your reply.

I'm shocked, upset, etc, etc. 'Nuff said. If I ever read or post another note in this forum I hope someone shoots me. Screw it, I don't belong here.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:28 PM   #47
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Originally posted by verte76
I'm shocked, upset, etc, etc. 'Nuff said. If I ever read or post another note in this forum I hope someone shoots me. Screw it, I don't belong here.
Don't say that! It'd be a shame if you were to stop posting here because of one post, I'd really miss reading your posts. You definitely do belong here - you always have some great insights and lots of interesting things to say.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:33 PM   #48
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if i had to choose betwwen..
human rights
or small potatos..
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:33 PM   #49
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Don't say that! It'd be a shame if you were to stop posting here because of one post, I'd really miss reading your posts. You definitely do belong here - you always have some great insights and lots of interesting things to say.
Verte

You need to be able to ignore db9. He tries to act like an asshole and it comes really easy. lol
= vocabulary

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Old 04-18-2003, 04:34 PM   #50
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small potatos..
namecallers are not sexy.

db3
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:49 PM   #51
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said the pot to the kettle...
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:53 PM   #52
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LOL, but I did say "tries to act" - never actually called him names.
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Old 04-18-2003, 05:40 PM   #53
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I'm sorry, I'm acting like a jerk. But, I'm from a family of artists and scholars and I'm no saint. Those posts of diamond's were insulting. Thanks alot, buster. This doesn't excuse jerk-like behavior, however. Still, this museum/library news has been stressful. Bush's own cultural advisors resigned in protest of the negligence of the planners. Do you think they're not upset? It's not a matter of human rights vs. artifacts. Guarding that stuff was no more a risk to human rights than guarding the oil was. They were as important, if not more important than oil. After all, you can replace lost oil. You can't replace lost antiquities. Burned Korans? Are you kidding? I work in a library. Give me a break. I think I'm just tired of politics.
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Old 04-18-2003, 05:47 PM   #54
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I just like to say I don't the precise location of all the buildings that were looted. If a lot of them were in downtown Baghdad, it may have been impossible to prevent from happening. When Saddam was still in full control of Baghdad, it was impossible to put special operations troops in to secure the buildings. It was also uncertain how fast Baghdads defenses would crumble. The Buildings security was probably abandon as US troops were launching their probing attacks into the city. By the time the USA had near full control of the city, the worst looting may have already been done.

Certainly some of the looting may have been preventable, but a lot of it may have been impossible to prevent. Realize securing the oil wells far out in the desert away from cities and major concentrations of Iraqi troops was a much easier task then securing buildings in the heart of Baghdad when Saddam was still in control. I could be wrong, but I think a lot things were looted in a small space of time between the USA's early raids into the city and the end of all fighting.

As a lover of history and genealogy myself, I admit that the loss of the artifacts is enormous. But they may still be recovered at some point hopefully. Realize the buildings where they were located could have been completely destroyed by Saddam or just fighting. Thing is, I never once heard anyone here at FYM prior to the war discuss their concern about the fact that these ancient artifacts could be lossed or destroyed in the war even though it was a likely possibility.
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Old 04-18-2003, 06:03 PM   #55
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Thanks for your concern, Sting. I'm upset because it's so personal for me. This stuff is my life's work. I understand that there was alot of uncertainly about Baghdad because it's a city of 5 million, the size of Chicago, and they were mainly trying to minimize casualties. I would have been outraged if it'd been any other way at the beginning of the hostilities. Still, they put a special guard at the Ministry of Oil. They should have put one at the museum and the library because aside from politics those were the most important buildings in Baghdad. There *was* stuff in the art/cultural press about the dangers to Baghdad's antiquities, it just never made the mainstream media. Maybe people aren't going to think about the text of "Gilgamesh" when a war like that is going on. But to me it's the worst thing that's ever happened during a war in my lifetime. This includes the Iran-Iraq war--this stuff obviously survived that--Operation Desert Storm, the campaigns in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. I'm taking a break from politics because I'm stressed out big time from it. Whew! I want some nice PLEBA pix, some U2 and some chamomile tea.
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Old 04-18-2003, 06:14 PM   #56
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I am so glad that no US Soldier shot and killed any of the looters. I can only immagine what kind of thread we would be reading here today. And yes, if they detained and put the civilians in a prison, without legal representation, my God, the outcry would be enormous.

I am no longer confused when I come here. I now understand that there is absolutely NOTHING that the this United States Governement can do that would please people in here.

I am sorry, but as a former soldier, I would be totally pissed if I were sent to stand in front of the Museum of Natural History to protect it.

As a parent, I would want to cause bodily harm to any leader who put my child in there to protect Hammurabi's Code of Laws, if my child even suffered a scratch while doing it.

You want to talk about the hospitals, fine. I agree with that. There should be soldiers securing those areas and protecting the hospitals. That is something I think should have been protected.

I was a history major in college, and I am tremendously saddened at the loss of the articfacts, but that is what they are, artifacts. One drop of American Blood is not worth an artifact.

Now as to the boards here in WAR, am still waiting for one person from the anti-war side to acknowledge that this was a carefully fought war. That the US and its allies did try very hard to limit civilian casualties. That the posts claiming that there would be over a million dead civilians as a result of this conflict was BOGUS. But no, no one does that here. We slam the US for not protecting a museum here in U2 land.

Now if any of you can provide me with the statistics, that show that American Soldiers could have protected these museums, with accurate troop strength, supplies, and MOS's, that show that this was within our capabilities, I would really like to be enlightened.
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Old 04-18-2003, 06:36 PM   #57
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I am no longer confused when I come here. I now understand that there is absolutely NOTHING that the this United States Governement can do that would please people in here.
I think this statement can go both ways. There are some that may think this government (but I think it's more -this administration-) can't do anything right, but there are also those who believe they can't do wrong. You and I know they are both wrong.

Quote:
Now as to the boards here in WAR, am still waiting for one person from the anti-war side to acknowledge that this was a carefully fought war. That the US and its allies did try very hard to limit civilian casualties.
Yes this was a very carefully fought war. But it was a very poorly planned war. This was a pre-imptive war. The rules change when you make the first move, you have to take responsibility for the aftermath, you have to account for every possible issue that may arise. That was not done.
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Old 04-18-2003, 07:40 PM   #58
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
One drop of American Blood is not worth an artifact.
Oh REALLY? And I supposed that protecting an Oil field/Ministry is? Would protecting an artifact be worth a drop of someone else's blood then? Come on.

Why is it that art, culture and history are ALWAYS put down as being less important than everything else? It's like comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about the history and culture and art of HUMAN KIND. This stuff is PRICELESS...and the loss of it is immeasurable and tragic.

This whole topic makes me ill.

verte
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Old 04-18-2003, 07:44 PM   #59
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Mrs Edge..

Shouldnt you be off to dance practice or something more productive or artful that would benefit humankind in your estimation?
Politics do not seem to be quite your cup of tea.
Run along..
Just kidding..

thank u-

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Old 04-18-2003, 08:27 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Mrs. Edge


Oh REALLY? And I supposed that protecting an Oil field/Ministry is? Would protecting an artifact be worth a drop of someone else's blood then? Come on.

Why is it that art, culture and history are ALWAYS put down as being less important than everything else? It's like comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about the history and culture and art of HUMAN KIND. This stuff is PRICELESS...and the loss of it is immeasurable and tragic.

This whole topic makes me ill.

verte
Let me again state that I majored in History and completely understand what has been lost and it does sadden me and I agree with your take on the value of the artifacts.

I do stand by my statement, that museum is not worth one drop of American Blood. If anywhere in my statement I implied that our blood is worth more than someone elses, please show me that. You appear to be borderline twisting my words.

As a soldier....there is no way I signed my name on the line to protect a museum. As I said in my statement, put me in front of a hospital or a building vital to Iraq's future. Sorry, my life is not worth an artifact, nor is my children's life if they are in the service.

That said, the Oil/Field Ministry may very well bring food for the Iraqi people in the long run. So yes, indeed I do find its protection more valuable to the survival of the Iraqi people. That artifact is not their future while the oil industry is.
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