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Old 07-17-2006, 04:04 AM   #121
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Well my point is, why mention God at all? It automatically puts 1. all other religious people on the defensive 2. makes your statement pathetic and completely bullshit to anyone who doesn't believe in God.

This is my main point which keeps getting swallowed up in amongst all these other posts! DON'T talk about God, as if you are speaking FOR ALL OF US. DON'T ASSUME we understand or ACCEPT your reasons, when you include religion as one of them. It basically runs the other way.

I also agree that most wars/conflicts have undertones of religion. It may not be the main reason, but I beleive its a reason it goes on so long.

Just picked out a few, im not very educated on most (i was always bored in lessons on wars) but these are just two that are blinding obvious about religion being a part of the war

Iraq War - How can you not see this has religion as a part of it. Sure they are bring "democracy" to the country, but the reason the terrorists are fighting so hard? The civil war? It's between different religious factions, and there is no mistaking that.

WW 2 Uhm extermination of the Jewish race?
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Old 07-17-2006, 04:55 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Thank you all for you comments. I do feel slightly relieved that there are other people like me out here in Free Your Mind as it sometimes can feel as if its "Free Your Mind...to God" on here.


dazzlingamy, I just wanted to express a hearty thanks to you for beginning this thread Even though it's somehow morphed into a discussion about war ... though, that's really not that surprising, in a way

Anyhooo, I know I'm only fairly new to this forum. and initially, I was kind of excited to find a place where I could read and discuss like minded people's views and stories about U2, music and just about everything else. And there's alot of that here, of course! But I must confess, I also find myself constantly befuddled, irritated, confused and on the odd occassion, just down-right furious at some of the comments that I've read. Especially about religion and all that it entails.

Personally, I do not have a label as such. I feel very drawn to Eastern philosophies, especially Buddhism. I feel a great spiritual connection through the practice of Yoga. And I'm also very interested in nature-based religions and beliefs (such as Wicca). A musician I admire greatly said once that he is a 'human becoming' .. which I thought was a really good one I also recall Bono talking about Mikhail Gorbachev on the telly during his interview with Andrew Denton on the ABC. Bono asked Mr Gorbachev whether or not he believed in God and his answer was 'I believe in the Universe'.

I really loved that

Maybe I'm just a dork, but I actually really love talking about religion and different belief systems and listening to different experiences, whether a person is a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Buddhist/Athiest/Agnostic etc .. simply for the pure joy of learning and understanding. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen too often!

There is something that I want to genuinely clarify too. Can someone tell me here whether I am wrong?! On a number of occassions, I've read various comments that seem to say that if you are not a Christian, then you must be an athiest or a skeptic?!?! Is this a huge generalisation on my part?? Please say it isn't so!! (Not that there's anything wrong with atheists or skeptics ). It's just that my understanding of atheism is not believing in a God or gods. I don't think that a Hindu, for instance, is an atheist?!

Anyway, I would be mighty pleased if there were more discussions relating to this topic, in an open-minded and positive manner, that is
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Old 07-17-2006, 04:58 AM   #123
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Sorry, I realise now I spelt atheist wrong too many times
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Old 07-17-2006, 05:42 AM   #124
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Man, this is the best thread I have read in ages ... Go, healthy discussion!

I agree with so much that has been said here. I too consider myself an atheist. (I was raised a Catholic and found I just could not reconcile the hypocracy of the Church - on so many levels. On a basic level, when a member of my family married a non-Catholic and I was told - as a 10 year old child - that that person would not be going to heaven, I remember being quite traumatised and quite frankly, TERRIFIED, at the thought of being a member of club that would so blatantly exclude others. I really believe that that is what religion does - whether it intends to or not.

It does appear to me (note the "me") that on a logical level there is no god, but perhaps there is no logic in faith? I don't mean that disrespectfully - I welcome some discussion.

I think this comment said it all, really:

Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k

I have no interest in converting people to how I view the world.
Put simply, the world would be a better, but perhaps less interesting place if more people truly followed this mantra.
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Old 07-17-2006, 06:06 AM   #125
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TranceEnding, thanks for your comments. Atheism to my knowledge is being skeptical in beliefs about deitys/Gods. Its not believing in any of them, through the means f philisophical, scientifical and rationalism. Wikipedia has very informative articles on both Atheism and Agnosticism. I aline myself with both, in that I don't believe in Christianity, or any other major religion, but i do believe we all have a soul and sometimes I believe in rebirth.

I really like and admire Buddism, because I like that it involes inner harmony and individual knowledge rather then outward 'preaching' and point the finger at everyone else, and using scare tactics to get people to conform.

Here is a little bit on Buddism from Wikipedia


Buddhism is often described as atheistic, since Buddhist authorities and canonical texts do not affirm, and sometimes deny, the following:

* The existence of a creation, and therefore of a creator god
* That a god, gods, or other divine beings are the source of moral imperatives
* That human beings or other creatures are responsible to a god or gods for their actions

Buddhists might also be deemed atheistic in anti-Buddhist Hindu polemic, since Buddhists opposed the authority of the Vedas and of Vedic priests, and the power of the rituals of Vedic religion.

However, all canonical Buddhist texts that mention the subject accept the existence (as distinct from the authority) of a great number of spiritual beings, including the Vedic deities. From the point of view of Western theism, certain concepts of the Buddha found in the Mahayana school of Buddhism, e.g. of Amitabha or the Adibuddha may seem to share characteristics with Western concepts of God, but Shakyamuni Buddha himself denied that he was a god or divine.


anyway here are some links if anyone is interested in looking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism (another interesting value path)
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:04 AM   #126
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all religions are out-dated..

acrobatmanism is the best and it is the only way to heaven
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:08 AM   #127
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@ dazzlingamy : Thank you ! I'll check 'em out!
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:59 AM   #128
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Well my point is, why mention God at all? It automatically puts 1. all other religious people on the defensive 2. makes your statement pathetic and completely bullshit to anyone who doesn't believe in God.

This is my main point which keeps getting swallowed up in amongst all these other posts! DON'T talk about God, as if you are speaking FOR ALL OF US. DON'T ASSUME we understand or ACCEPT your reasons, when you include religion as one of them. It basically runs the other way.

I also agree that most wars/conflicts have undertones of religion. It may not be the main reason, but I beleive its a reason it goes on so long.

Just picked out a few, im not very educated on most (i was always bored in lessons on wars) but these are just two that are blinding obvious about religion being a part of the war
Quote:
Iraq War - How can you not see this has religion as a part of it. Sure they are bring "democracy" to the country, but the reason the terrorists are fighting so hard? The civil war? It's between different religious factions, and there is no mistaking that.
The US War with Iraq is not fought between two religious factions.

Quote:
WW 2 Uhm extermination of the Jewish race? [/B]
While it's true that Hitler hated Jews and Christianity (especially Catholics), it was not a religious war. The motivation wasn't religion, on either side. Hitler also slaughtered gypsies, homosexuals and others.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:04 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Kind of like classifying me as a member of "you all (Christians)" when I'm not Christian? Or was I not supposed to conclude that "you all" apparently includes me, since you were replying to me.
seriously though , what are you waffling about?
i never mentioned anything about " you all" or "christians" in that quote, whats so ever.


btw if you believe all the stories in the bible you are most likely to believe in the following:

The three little pigs - http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/tweeni...s/3littlepigs/


Little red ridding hood

Toy story

and many many more.



The only book of wisdom i believe in is the TV times. Its also one hell of a read.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:04 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
all religions are out-dated..

acrobatmanism is the best and it is the only way to heaven
The funny thing is, that if you were to establish acrobatmanism as an actual religion, it would have the same credibility as all the other (established) religions. In the end, it's all a matter of faith right?
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:05 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The US War with Iraq is not fought between two religious factions.



While it's true that Hitler hated Jews and Christianity (especially Catholics), it was not a religious war. The motivation wasn't religion, on either side. Hitler also slaughtered gypsies, homosexuals and others.
The genocide was about religion though, denying that is almost as bad as denying it ever took place.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:19 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


The genocide was about religion though, denying that is almost as bad as denying it ever took place.
The only way that it was about religion is that two of the 4 main groups he targeted were religious groups - the Jews and the Catholics. He also murdered gypsies and homosexuals. That does not make it a religious war. Hitler was not a religious man. While he made a few public statements paying lip service to Christianity, he actually hated it, as can be seen in his autobiography. He did not wage a religious war. We did not wage a religious war against him.

Now, explain to me how my view that WW 2 was not a religious war is bad at all, especially "almost as bad as denying it ever took place"?
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:21 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth


The funny thing is, that if you were to establish acrobatmanism as an actual religion, it would have the same credibility as all the other (established) religions. In the end, it's all a matter of faith right?
Really? As credible as all the other religions? Is there historical evidence that the Acrobat Man lived and walked and spread his message around for 3 years and then was crucified?
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:26 AM   #134
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Does acrobatmanism claim that?
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:46 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Really? As credible as all the other religions? Is there historical evidence that the Acrobat Man lived and walked and spread his message around for 3 years and then was crucified?
preach brother PREACH!!

acrobats religion sounds as honest as any other
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