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Old 07-19-2006, 04:52 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
I have read all of the threads in response to mine, and they've all basically said the same thing, which the exception of A_Wanderer's, which make sense even if I disagree.

You asked about how emotions and feelings wouldn't matter to an atheist because they were just a result of a scientific process, it was just nothing, as opposed to the person who beleives in God who could see this as some sort of divine intervention or whatever, how the exaxt same sensation would measn something different.

Clearly you were shown that these emotions and feelings are the exact fucking same, you had basically no retort, and now you won't acknowledge it, so....typical.

I do have your back on many of these questions and issue, but you are being a bit of a hypocrite on this one.
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Old 07-19-2006, 04:56 AM   #287
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Originally posted by shart1780


I know this will sound like a cop-out, but the fact that I believe in God grants me certain liberties as to skipping out on logic (I'm gonna get bashed for that), but only when it directly applies to God's miraculous work in this world, which I could never claim to explain.

And that you definately do, skip on the logic. Even as a believer I find your arguments in here and in some of the other threads to lack logic. Believing in God does not grant you these liberties, whoever told you this lied to you and you may want to ask for your money back.
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Old 07-19-2006, 04:56 AM   #288
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
There doesn't have to be any higher meaning. Atheism is logically flawed if you take the theological concepts of higher purpose (of which there is no evidence of) to the discussion.

We can logically explain emotions through application of reductionary investigation, scientific explanation of the working of the mind grounded in reality relegates the idea of any divine influence to the same bin of ideas such as humours and Freud.
I am in no way questioning the existence of true emotion or the effects it has on people. I'm questioning the opinion of atheists that they should logically be taken as something to be treasured, so to speak, when in the big picture humans don't logically truly matter to the universe.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:01 AM   #289
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


And that you definately do, skip on the logic. Even as a believer I find your arguments in here and in some of the other threads to lack logic. Believing in God does not grant you these liberties, whoever told you this lied to you and you may want to ask for your money back.
No one told me that. I explained further in the rest of my post why I feel I can take those liberties in an argument regarding God. You can't always use logic in an argument concerning religion, and I think it's silly to think you should. I do however hold myself to the teachings of the Bible, so I'm not just making up things left and right when it comes to God.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:02 AM   #290
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Four posts since yolland told you to knock it off. I have the feeling that you may be about to experience the "higher power" that is a mod.

Edit - make that five posts.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:06 AM   #291
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Well I don't see why because i'm agnostic that my arguments need to be steeped in logic yet you're allowed to skip it because "God can't be explained"

so because I can't break down exactly how I feel for you to be able to understand other then saying that I can love and be happy and whatever without the aid or presence of a higher being in my life that suddenly my THOUGHTS and ACTIONS are flawed?

I think you need to realise that there are a lot of people in this world who don't need God to validate their life, and that we carry on just fine without pretending to ourselves there is a God.

As i said before, I don't think that I have to justify myself to you, because I don't really care if you understand me or not. We are worlds apart with our ideas and for both of us that will never change. I'm happy that you live your life with your god. IF he makes you happy then do it. But you need to understand I am perfectly happy and healthy living my life this way. I don't want, need, or even think about a higher being, and certainly have never felt a need for one. So thats me ok?
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:07 AM   #292
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I don't see how that's fair, as I'm honestly trying to understand your points/convince you of mine. I'm not just trying to stir up trouble.

I guess I have no choice but to stop if I'm being threatened by a mod though.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:07 AM   #293
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Originally posted by VintagePunk
Four posts since yolland told you to knock it off. I have the feeling that you may be about to experience the "higher power" that is a mod.

Edit - make that five posts.
Fuck that, he should be allowed to speak. period
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:10 AM   #294
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Originally posted by shart1780
I don't see how that's fair, as I'm honestly trying to understand your points/convince you of mine. I'm not just trying to stir up trouble.

I guess I have no choice but to stop if I'm being threatened by a mod though.
you should be allowed to say your peace, I got your back.

Is there any type of decent accusation against this?
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:11 AM   #295
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Originally posted by shart1780


No one told me that. I explained further in the rest of my post why I feel I can take those liberties in an argument regarding God. You can't always use logic in an argument concerning religion, and I think it's silly to think you should. I do however hold myself to the teachings of the Bible, so I'm not just making up things left and right when it comes to God.
Well this is an easy cop out to avoid any real discussion based on logic or science for the rest of your life, congrats.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to say God created the world, therefore the laws of science, but went out of his way to breaks those laws.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:13 AM   #296
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Originally posted by shart1780
I don't see how that's fair, as I'm honestly trying to understand your points/convince you of mine. I'm not just trying to stir up trouble.

I guess I have no choice but to stop if I'm being threatened by a mod though.
You're not going to convince me of yours. In my opinion, you're living your life based on an ancient text that was written by man, and a feeling you have - period. If that's how you want to live you life, fine, have at it. It just makes little sense to me.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:13 AM   #297
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Well I don't see why because i'm agnostic that my arguments need to be steeped in logic yet you're allowed to skip it because "God can't be explained"

so because I can't break down exactly how I feel for you to be able to understand other then saying that I can love and be happy and whatever without the aid or presence of a higher being in my life that suddenly my THOUGHTS and ACTIONS are flawed?

I think you need to realise that there are a lot of people in this world who don't need God to validate their life, and that we carry on just fine without pretending to ourselves there is a God.

As i said before, I don't think that I have to justify myself to you, because I don't really care if you understand me or not. We are worlds apart with our ideas and for both of us that will never change. I'm happy that you live your life with your god. IF he makes you happy then do it. But you need to understand I am perfectly happy and healthy living my life this way. I don't want, need, or even think about a higher being, and certainly have never felt a need for one. So thats me ok?
Because of the fact that you have a life view that relies solely on logic I think it's perfectly fair to hold you to it, just as it would be fair for you to hold me to scripture if you felt I was contradicting it.

Again, I'm not questioning whether you can love and be happy without God. I know for a fact that you can lead a happy life without God. I'm asking you to logically explain to me why it matters in the grand scheme of things. Why do you feel you can judge others about their actions in a universe with no higher meaning? Your emotions and thoughts would make perfect sense in a scientific sense, but I'm asking you if they matter in any other sense.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:16 AM   #298
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Originally posted by VintagePunk


You're not going to convince me of yours. In my opinion, you're living your life based on an ancient text that was written by man, and a feeling you have - period. If that's how you want to live you life, fine, have at it. It just makes little sense to me.
And the way you live your life makes little sense to me. Should we only be able to discuss if we can easily come to a point where we have the same opinion?
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:19 AM   #299
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The whole point of not discussing this anymore is that no one is giving him the answer HE is looking for or is satisfied with. Many of us have responded to how we feel and what we think but that apparently isn't good enough for him.

The thread was derailed pages ago by him by suggesting that non-theists are wrong and how he perceives non-theists should feel. As I have stated before, he has no idea how a non-theist views the world and has no right suggesting our views are incorrect. And then saying our answers don't make sense. It's circular logic. Apparently, he knows how we feel and how we should explain we feel. I'm refuse to respond to him anymore.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:21 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


And the way you live your life makes little sense to me. Should we only be able to discuss if we can easily come to a point where we have the same opinion?
There's a major difference here. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm merely trying to explain my experience. I've explained it over and over, and apparently, my explanation is not good enough. I have many religious friends who, while not agreeing with me, can certainly understand my reasoning. It's not difficult, really. Perhaps you can't understand, and that's fine, but admit that, and stop pretending that something is wrong with my explanation, just because it doesn't resonate with you.


Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
Apparently, he knows how we feel and how we should explain we feel. I'm refuse to respond to him anymore.
I'm at that point, too. I'm done. And I would really like to get this thread back on track, before it's closed.
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