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Old 07-19-2006, 02:14 AM   #256
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It's not our existence that matters, it is what we do with it.
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It seems to me like people here are saying we matter because we feel like it, basically.
Thats really about right, humanity can't destroy the universe or shift galaxies - our abilities are more or less grounded on a single lump of rock around an unassuming star - so in the scheme of things we don't matter. It's just that we have a great ability to put ourselves above our weight and pretend that we can do things like destroy the planet, wipe life out or for that matter think that we are the center of a creators plan and scheme. Human ego should not be diminished in this, especially when anybody claims that in the scheme of the universe we matter.

For the record modern humans have existed for 100,000 years. The universe has existed for at least 13.7 billion years, our existence represents 1/137000 of time.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:16 AM   #257
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We dont matter, of all the trillions of stars out there we are but one, you set up a false line of questioning, your asking "because its a fact we do matter then when you say that the end of the earth wouldn't matter much in the scheme of things you are creating a paradox" [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm trying to use the atheist's logic against them. I'm not saying we don't matter, I'm saying that an atheist has no logical reason to feel that they matter. The fact that I say they matter because I believe in a God that they reject shouldn't comfort them in any way, yet they are comforted by reminding themselves that they somehow matter.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:17 AM   #258
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It's not our existence that matters, it is what we do with it.
And how, in the grand scheme of things, as you say, would anything we do matter?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:19 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
I think if I belived what you do I'd feel as though I don't matter at all.

Do you honestly feel as though a scientific chart showing our evolution could show the importance of emotions like love, happiness, fear and anger? Sure, they put us at the top of the food chain, but other than that what's the point?

If the fact that we mattered was a universal truth then we'd somehow be missed when we were gone. According to you the Earth could explode and we wouldn't be missed one bit, so how do we truly matter?
I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse, or if you're genuinely struggling to understand. In case it's the latter, I'll give it another go.

I'm sorry that you would feel that you don't matter, but that's not the case for me, or most of my fellow athiests/agnostics, I suspect.

Why do I feel I matter? I matter to myself. The experiences I have during this life are worthwhile to me. As well, I matter to the people whose lives I touch. I matter to my family, my friends, and maybe even some acquaintences. I matter to these people, and they matter to me because of what our interactions provide to us on a human level - the joy, the pleasure, the learning experiences, and even the negative experiences or strife we experience together that ultimately help us to grow as people. On a wider level, people can matter for generations after their deaths when they leave something behind in the world - a piece of art, architecture, or even ideas and knowledge are examples of these things. However, if one doesn't leave behind anything that's valued by subsequent generations, I agree with Trevster, we pretty much cease to matter at that point. But by then we're gone, so what difference does it make? I'm far more concerned with mattering now.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:23 AM   #260
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Originally posted by shart1780


And how, in the grand scheme of things, as you say, would anything we do matter?
I suppose it's a matter of scale, a single person can be remembered for centuries if they achieve greatness, a creature can be fossilised and become a sensation millions of years after it's death, we could travel to other planets and perhaps one day stars.

Perhaps by working to unravelling the mysteries of the universe in some far distant future the decendents of humanity could essentially become Gods.

I guess in the end what makes something matter is it's effect on human life, and that is many magnitudes smaller than our universe.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:24 AM   #261
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By that train of thought the only true reason to preserve human life would be to avoid the hurt of those who were close to the person.

Can you tell me why it would matter if a bum on the street, with no friends or family died?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:24 AM   #262
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This thread has been hijacked into a ridiculous argument. We have given this point more than enough attention. It doesn't matter if he understands cause he will only accept answers which he agrees with. So I refuse to continue the discussion regarding his question.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:26 AM   #263
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I'm saying that an atheist has no logical reason to feel that they matter.
I happen to think that I matter a lot to me, pretty much moreso than anything else there is, I have sovereign over my own mind and body and that is something rather dear to me, could be possible that a world where my existence is the only one I get and its for a limited time only could mean that it is more valuable to me than that of a believer who thinks they get time in life followed by infinite in supposed paradise?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:28 AM   #264
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Originally posted by trevster2k
This thread has been hijacked into a ridiculous argument. We have given this point more than enough attention. It doesn't matter if he understands cause he will only accept answers which he agrees with. So I refuse to continue the discussion regarding his question.
I agree. This has been a lot of work. I say that us athiests deserve the rest of the night off to indulge in athiest-type immoral activities. Where's a good drunken orgy when you need one?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:28 AM   #265
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I suppose it's a matter of scale, a single person can be remembered for centuries if they achieve greatness, a creature can be fossilised and become a sensation millions of years after it's death, we could travel to other planets and perhaps one day stars.

Perhaps by working to unravelling the mysteries of the universe in some far distant future the decendents of humanity could essentially become Gods.

I guess in the end what makes something matter is it's effect on human life, and that is many magnitudes smaller than our universe.
Why is it important to be remembered by a bunch of other beings who also don't matter? It almost sounds as if you're trivializing the worth of lesser human beings and placing all of our importance on our "greatness".

I agree that if there is no higher calling it is a matter of scale. It's basically a matter of size, time and distance. But I still fail to see how such things matter in any sort of way. Why is bigger better than smaller? Why is longer better than shorter? why is something that's prevelant in the univerese necissarily better? It seems to me that bigger equals better in the human mind, but in reality I don't know why it should.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:32 AM   #266
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I don't know, maybe some faggotry - you know this God probably should come out of the closet, a guy (as has been highlighted numerous times) who not only inspires people to treat their sexuality as wrong but at the same time is supposedly the one imbuing them with that persuasion, and being omnicient he gets to watch, issues much.

Just to boil it down.

We don't matter to any objective power for better or worse, nobody will weep if all humanity is snuffed out but on the plus side nobody is going to bring about judgement day.

A person is entitled to rights and liberties to live as they see fit unless they infringe upon others rights or liberties in which case their may become forfeit.

An act of charity can be it's own reward.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:34 AM   #267
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Why is it important to be remembered by a bunch of other beings who also don't matter? It almost sounds as if you're trivializing the worth of lesser human beings and placing all of our importance on our "greatness".
A persons legacy (apart from progeny) is the closest we can get to immortality, and even then it probably wont last more than a few thousand years - tops.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:39 AM   #268
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
A persons legacy (apart from progeny) is the closest we can get to immortality, and even then it probably wont last more than a few thousand years - tops.
I just don't see the point in greatness like you do I guess.
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Old 07-19-2006, 03:32 AM   #269
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I cannot believe I go away for a night and this thread has denegrated to this. LOL

I can't believe atheists have been boiled down to sacks of biological meat with no heart roaming the earth shagging everything in sight and killing people just cause why would it matter if they died cause we don't feel anything.

I think it is ABSOLUTELY offensive and arrogant to assume that you can only have real emotions and feel for other people if you have god in your life. I honestly cannot understand this reasoning (if you could call it that at all)

I live my life, because its my life. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't make my life any less worth living. I enjoy my relationships, have fun, LOVE with all my heart, cry when im sad etc etc. Its me. But i dont not believe for one freaking second that some oooogity booogity man made me this way. I am what i am from my social, physical and emotional upbringing. Just because you feel life wouldnt be worth living if you didn't have your precious deity, doesn't mean i feel that way as well.

The utter close mindedness arrogance and complete lack of understanding from some people in this thread is mind boggling.

And thanks LivLuv, I respect your opinions. We may be on oppisite ends of the spectrum, but what is important is there is some understaning and respect there, something that a few people in this thread have not shown at all.

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Old 07-19-2006, 03:41 AM   #270
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shart--again, please knock it off. Several people now have clearly told you that they have answered your questions as best as they could and have nothing more to say to you. Let it go. You are not advancing the discussion.

Perhaps the thread needs a new direction. amy's original question was:
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
But the real reason I post this, in the hope to get some people who feel the same as me, is Where is our place in this current world arena?
Very few posts in here have attempted to answer that. Most of the posts are either personal testimonies in some form, or else interjections/responses concerning Christianity and/or belief in God.
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