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Old 07-19-2006, 01:43 AM   #241
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If there is no God absolutely NO ONE would give a rat's ass if every single one of us went extinct.
Bingo. And I'm fine with that.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:43 AM   #242
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
You are an organism with an inherent drive to survive and reproduce, feelings matter because they enable both these functions in organisms with self-awareness and to a degree choice.

Feelings and emotions are not an existential cause to be, their existence does not demand esoteric purpose but practical function, namely the social interactions that enabled homo sapiens to beat out the other homonids.

And what is it with the "him"? Is this supposed entity the bearer of a Y chromosome, does it have sex with other Gods and then the other Gods are the ones that bear it's offspring - it is a truly anthropomorphic concept.
Just because I have a drive to survive my survival matters? Why is that?

Well, as far as I know Adam was created in God's image and then created a female companion for him slightly differently. Can't say I know this for sure though. I'm not going to try and explain the physical makeup of God as it's completely impossible and I wouldn't be able to comprehend it. He is refered to as male though.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:44 AM   #243
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We don't matter in the scheme of things, even by the standards of species we haven't been around long at all, having a continuously progressive idea of evolution is destined to fail because human beings are not at the absolute pinnacle of life, even something that isn't alive (a virus) could wipe us out.

Your highlighting of how in the absence of God we are only left with the cold bitter truth of short existence and death and making it out as a horror just illustrates the nature of belief, fictions to avoid that singular truth. Until humans conciously and individually accept our place in the universe as it is we will never be able to make it as it should be, since paradise is stuck in a perpetual afterlife.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:48 AM   #244
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Just because I have a drive to survive my survival matters? Why is that?
Because in your cells you store the cumulative information of 3.85 billion years of evolution, information that has been changing and replicating since the first metabolising and replicating nucleotide came into existence (making one immensely complicated molecule with the entire surface area of a planet as a sandbox does improve the odds somewhat.

We live to breed, if an organism cannot adapt and gets outcompeted then it's information is lost, the history of life selects for organisms that make their existence and reproduction important.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:52 AM   #245
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Now tell me, if there is nothing higher than us and we are just animals roaming this Earth, WHY does anything we feel matter. Someone please give me a short, concise answer because I haven't gorren one yet.
People have told you; they're just not giving you the answers you want to hear.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:56 AM   #246
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Now, if there is no God I believe we're essentially animals who have evolved to the point where we think we matter in the grand scheme of things somehow. When we died why would it truly matter if we led a good life? Who would miss us when our loved ones passed away as well? No one. We'd simply rot in the dirt with worms crawling through our eyeballs.

Umm, see you're not an atheist , so please don't tell us how we view the grand scheme of things. You are telling us how YOU think things are if there was no God. No one here is telling you that we are just animals. Besides the purpose of living a good life is not to get credit or rewards for it, it is make the world a better place for mankind.

Who misses people who lived in the 1600's, no one. Most people barely know their family tree past their great grandparents. Once a person's immediate social and family circle dies, usually there memory dies along with them unless they are a celebrity or made some significant contribution to the world. This doesn't happen from malice, it is just the way the world is. There are some exceptions where families keep excellent records but for the most part, this doesn't happen.

And here, gnaw on these quotes for a while

the world will be a better place if we all believe whatever we wish, but behave as if there is no deity to sort out humankind's problems

or

Perhaps it's fair to say that it doesn't matter so much what you believe as how you behave. If you happen to hold the finest theological beliefs there are, and if you understand all the very best and most detailed divine precepts and commandments, but in your daily life you are actually angry, shouting and inhumane, then that's the way you will be remembered. Believing is all very well, but behaving is what you are judged by and will be remembered by.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:56 AM   #247
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I think if I belived what you do I'd feel as though I don't matter at all.

Do you honestly feel as though a scientific chart showing our evolution could show the importance of emotions like love, happiness, fear and anger? Sure, they put us at the top of the food chain, but other than that what's the point?

If the fact that we mattered was a universal truth then we'd somehow be missed when we were gone. According to you the Earth could explode and we wouldn't be missed one bit, so how do we truly matter?
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:57 AM   #248
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Perhaps a better answer would be a question, why does it need to matter?
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:59 AM   #249
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None of you besides A_Wanderer are even trying to get to the root of why you believe what you do, you're just telling me a bunch of things that make absolutely no logical sense.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:03 AM   #250
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Perhaps a better answer would be a question, why does it need to matter?
The whole argument here is whether or not it does matter. Obviously the people here want to believe that their lives and feelings do matter.

It doesn't need to matter though. I believe we happened to have been created by a God, thus our lives have meaning. I just think that's the way things are.

Do we NEED to matter? Nope, I don't think so, but everyone sure seems to want to.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:03 AM   #251
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Originally posted by shart1780
[B]I think if I belived what you do I'd feel as though I don't matter at all.
See, you don't believe what we think. We don't feel that way, even AWanderer's point is not that we are insignificant, it's just that we run around acting like we are the shit. And really, we have to just to the best with the time we have on this planet. We are just visiting. You think that because of this perspective, we should all run off a cliff and say screw it all. You don't understand and it sounds like you never will so stop trying to tell us how you think we feel. I don't tell you how you feel as a believer, do I? You know why,CAUSE I'M NOT A BELIEVER and have no idea how you feel.

I'm done.

ETA

and can you get to the root of why you believe what you believe?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:06 AM   #252
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I think if I belived what you do I'd feel as though I don't matter at all.
Or maybe you would feel that you only have one existence and you may as well do as much with it as you can, materialistic existentialism need not be resignation to hopelessness - the human mind can face existence and death without the delusions of special importance, afterlife or fated purpose. We can shape our own fates and we are responsible over ourselves.
Quote:
Do you honestly feel as though a scientific chart showing our evolution could show the importance of emotions like love, happiness, fear and anger? Sure, they put us at the top of the food chain, but other than that what's the point?
The point is the survival of the information in our genes, evolutionary psychology is a brilliant field of research, understanding how our emotions are wired and their basis in natural and sexual selection.
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If the fact that we mattered was a universal truth then we'd somehow be missed when we were gone.
Provided that we mattered, and we are just one species out of hundreds of millions if not billions that have existed on the planet through time, we just happen to have been the first to evolve such singularly unique social skills and self-awareness.
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According to you the Earth could explode and we wouldn't be missed one bit, so how do we truly matter?
We dont matter, of all the trillions of stars out there we are but one, you set up a false line of questioning, your asking "because its a fact we do matter then when you say that the end of the earth wouldn't matter much in the scheme of things you are creating a paradox"
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:08 AM   #253
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Originally posted by shart1780
None of you besides A_Wanderer are even trying to get to the root of why you believe what you do, you're just telling me a bunch of things that make absolutely no logical sense.
And the logical sense of an omnipotent dictator in the sky who wants to hold all of us in peity on the basis of an ancient blood sacrifice is where exactly?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:09 AM   #254
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OK I got the answer I was looking for. We do not matter.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:11 AM   #255
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And the logical sense of an omnipotent dictator in the sky who wants to hold all of us in peity on the basis of an ancient blood sacrifice is where exactly?
I never claimed that the idea of a God is logical in a way that any of us could understand. But my arguments all do lead to the bass fact that God cares about us, thus my process of thought as to why we matter makes sense.

It seems to me like people here are saying we matter because we feel like it, basically.
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