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Old 07-18-2006, 12:41 PM   #196
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I have never considered being an athiest as being a "faith". It is just I don't have a belief. Just because I don't believe in deities means I believe science is all supreme. I accept the fact there are tons of things which humans don't understand. People have been curious since time began and are still learning about our planet and its' processes. Just because we don't know the origin of the universe or why serial killers do their acts of horror doesn't prove the existence of a supreme being. It just means we haven't figured it out yet.

There are thousands of things which people didn't understand in the past which we have come to understand. Bacteria, the movement of the planets, gravity, the effect of the moon on the tides, the New World, vaccines against disease, the lifeforms which survive a underwater hydrothermal vents, viagra and so on. Was lack of knowledge of these things credited to a supreme being at some point, probably, but man's thirst for how or why things are found answers for some and not for others. So I don't "believe" in science either anymore then I "believe" in Allah, Mohammed or Jesus.

I will add another post regarding daily decisionmaking, gotta step out for a while.
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:43 PM   #197
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


Thank you livluv.

I don't understand why people think that if some one is atheist that they don't care about anything.
Because some people feel that you can't have morals or empathy for your fellow man if you don't have a faith in a supreme being. This is totally incorrect.
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:52 PM   #198
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Caring about what? Health? Other people? To me, those are matters of common sense. You basically deduced that she's a selfish person and only cares for her own animal instincts.
They're not matters of common sense in the context here. Atheists look at things empiracly. The basis for not believing is because there's no evidence of it. It's all imagination, remember? So I'm looking at the evidence; throwing out emotion and trying to see things from her point of view. And it seems such a cold point of view and I'm curious about it so I'm carrying it to it's conclusion. If we're nothing more than a part of nature, then lets talk about things from a biological perspective.

I believe another athiest poster said earlier that religion was devised for no other reason than to keep the population in line. And that's logical. But the implication is that we needed those rules to prevent total anarchy and the destruction of civilization. So saying that without rules we're governed soley by animalistic needs. Alright, I'm running with that too.

And I didn't say she's a self centered person. I said her beliefs are self centered. Because I don't truely believe she has such a harsh worldview and if she doesn't then there's a contradiction there that I'm wanting to see.
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:56 PM   #199
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Originally posted by trevster2k


Because some people feel that you can't have morals or empathy for your fellow man if you don't have a faith in a supreme being. This is totally incorrect.
I agree. They are definitely misinformed.

As far as daily decision-making, I'm not sure what you mean. Why do I pick up a dozen donuts on Fridays for my co-workers? Why do I go to the gym? Why am I boycotting P.F. Changs?
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:59 PM   #200
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As far as daily decision-making, I'm not sure what you mean. Why do I pick up a dozen donuts on Fridays for my co-workers? Why do I go to the gym? Why am I boycotting P.F. Changs?
Nah, more like - Where do I go to school? Where do I work? How do I raise my kids? Should I recycle more? Can I sit back and think it's OK my friends are behaving this way? What career is right for me? - the big things we all have on our minds every day.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:02 PM   #201
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Originally posted by Snowlock


They're not matters of common sense in the context here. Atheists look at things empiracly. The basis for not believing is because there's no evidence of it. It's all imagination, remember? So I'm looking at the evidence; throwing out emotion and trying to see things from her point of view. And it seems such a cold point of view and I'm curious about it so I'm carrying it to it's conclusion.
And this is where you've gone wrong. What does emotion have to do with religion? Humans are not the only animal to show emotion.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:47 PM   #202
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What does emotion have to do with religion?
Everything.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:50 PM   #203
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Wow, Amy, I just wanted to say I'm sorry your thread got hijacked like it did. You asked for atheists to share their views and they've just about been drowned out by the believers taking offense. That must be frustrating.


i've been enjoying reading this thread, mostly because i'm going to bookmark it and return to it whenever anyone whines about FYM being filled with intolerant liberals or that there's some sort of horrible left-wing bias and conservatives get ganged-up upon.

anyway ... back to reading.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:52 PM   #204
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Everything.
That's interesting theology you have there.
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:13 PM   #205
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Everything.
The previous post I quoted implies that atheists can not experience emotion. Why do you think that?
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:19 PM   #206
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Everyone experiences emotion, there's no question about that.

I just wonder why atheists claim their emotions matter. I'm not saying they don't, but I believe in God.
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:21 PM   #207
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I found this in the book I mentioned earlier, Can Be Good Without God. The author, Robert Buckman, doesn't use the term athiest, he uses the term non-theist which I like better actually. I refer to the book because he is more eloquent than I in expressing these thoughts.

Non-Theist Core Principles

1. The human species has evolved as - and remains as - part of nature.

Humankind is no more that - and no less than - a part of nature: like all living organisms, humans have a life that is limited in duration and scope.

2. Human consiciousness is a function of the activity of the human brain.

Being aware of the rest of nature - and of the universe - and of its own place within it is a characteristic of humankind's mental functioning that is perhaps unique and certainly wonderful. Nevertheless, consiciousness is another aspect of natural life, and not a force or essence instilled into humans by an outside deity or intelligence. An individual's consiciousness ends when that person dies.

3. Human beings require (to some extent) a system of belief in order to function.

So far, most belief systems have revolved around the idea of an external god or gods,; however, the same need to believe can be equally served by alternative systems of philosophy. The Humanists' system is founded on using the scientific method to establish the factual basis of any data, and on basing human behaviour on reasonable conduct and democratic principles.

4. Humanists believe that in all its forms the supernatural is a myth.

Believing in an external God is a uniquely human activity. While is has undoubtly produced some advantages for humankind, it has also been a source of considerable divisiveness and strife. Humanists are people who do not believe in the idea of a Divine Architect or Regulator who has constructed the universe and controls human affairs, and they reject religions based on dogma, revelation or mysticism.

5. The human species is capable of achieving a great deal using its resources of collaberation and creativity. The results of these endeavours often benefit our species and planet, but we are also capable of using the same abilities in acts of destruction and cruelty.

The human species has always carried out acts of great benefit, but also acts of great destruction. Humanists recognize that the human species is innately capable of both of these - and that the potential for destruction is part of the human repertoire. Acts of mass aggression, killing and war are a result of tendencies built into human behaviour and are not simply the result fo a few abnormal and aberrant individuals. As a species we can clearly do many good things, but we need to be aware that we are capable of the opposite

6. Humanists do not believe that the rules of human conduct have been set or preordained by any deity or external intelligence.

Clearly, no single religion has been able to show that it has exclusive access to the secret of peaceful and cooperative co-existence of life on earth. There is much merit in the idea that there is no such thing as an extrinsic set of rules imposed on us from outside humankind that should be governing all of human behaviour.

7. Individuals who are aware of the consequences of their actions on other individuals, on the community and on the species are likely to behave in a more considerate, more reasonable and more ethical way.

Striving for the greater good and worth of the human species is not an exclusive property of theism. It is a human activity that can exist just as well without a belief in a deity as it can with it. Non-theists can be - and often are - ethical and moral people.

8. Humanists believe that equality of opportunity is a fundamental principle on which humankind can base its behaviour.

Equality of opportunity should be supported for people, no matter what their nation, ethnic background, gender, sexual orientation or any aspect of their beliefs.

9. Life on earth is relatively fragile and requires care and attention to continue.

There is nothing guaranteeing our species against all causes of potential extinction. Our own activities may threaten our existence, and we need to be aware of this in organizing and regulating what we need to do.

10. Humankind's destiny is not predetermined - much of it lies in our own control.

There is hope. But it's up to us to look after each other and ourselves.

Addtional guideline, he refers to as a suggestion: if you have children, do your best to like them

Much of mankind's woes seem to stem from children abused and disliked by their parents or caregivers as they grew up. The world will not be perfect if every child is not only loved but also liked, but it will probably be a lot more stable.

Me here, all humanists are athiest or non-theists but not all athiests are humanists just to be clear.
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:25 PM   #208
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I just wonder why atheists claim their emotions matter.
I'm astounded by the arrogance in this thread.
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:31 PM   #209
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Originally posted by shart1780
Everyone experiences emotion, there's no question about that.

I just wonder why atheists claim their emotions matter. I'm not saying they don't, but I believe in God.
Unbelievable.

Why wouldn't they matter? You still haven't answered what God has to do with it?
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:38 PM   #210
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Thank you for that list, trevster
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