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Old 06-13-2006, 12:19 PM   #106
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You've got a number of good questions here.

Fist, with respect to the "ancients", I've got no specific answer to what happened to them. We can speculate on an answer based on what is clearly articulated in Scripture and what we can surmise based on the character of God as revealed in Scripture.

Second, one of the problems frequently faced when trying to describe what God ought to do is we approach the subject from the limited human experience, trying to define the actions of an all-knowing, all-powerful God. It sort of lessens the concept of God when we want to understand, discuss or demand things on an equal footing. And this is a general statement - I see it everywhere in many different forms.

Sin is an eternal problem because God is Holy - He cannot have sin in His presense. If I want to be in the presense of God forever, I've got to do something about this sin.

The whole point of Jesus as the perfect sacrifice is so that we don't have to go through 80+ years constantly concerned about how we stack up. Sins are forgiven once and for all. As we approach God in Heaven, God no longer sees our sinful self, but see's Christ's Righteousness.

Does this mean we have a free pass for sin? Not if we are to live a Godly life, allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us. I daily confess sins before God, not to ensure my place in heaven (that is guaranteed), but to remain a clean vessel that can be used by God.
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:08 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
You've got a number of good questions here.

Fist, with respect to the "ancients", I've got no specific answer to what happened to them. We can speculate on an answer based on what is clearly articulated in Scripture and what we can surmise based on the character of God as revealed in Scripture.

What is clearly articulated in scripture? I have not read it.
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:07 PM   #108
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Based on scriptural references (which are admittedly vague), it's surmised that during the three days when Jesus was dead, he descended into Hell to preach the gospel to those in torment.

That's one of several interpretations of those verses.
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:31 PM   #109
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Originally posted by nathan1977
^
Based on scriptural references (which are admittedly vague), it's surmised that during the three days when Jesus was dead, he descended into Hell to preach the gospel to those in torment.

That's one of several interpretations of those verses.
Yeah that's a very literal and from my understanding very minority interpretation. And given the literal interpretation of hell would be full of many contradictions...
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:10 PM   #110
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This theological point is not based on a literal interpretation of one verse, but rather drawn from a collection of verses that give it strong support. 1 Peter 4:6 is a great place to start, with Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:8-10; and 1 Peter 3:18-20 completing the picture.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:18 PM   #111
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Thanks NBC -- figured you could shore that up.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:10 PM   #112
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
This theological point is not based on a literal interpretation of one verse, but rather drawn from a collection of verses that give it strong support. 1 Peter 4:6 is a great place to start, with Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:8-10; and 1 Peter 3:18-20 completing the picture.
Here's an interesting footnote that popped up when I looked up 1 Peter 4:6
"The dead: these may be the sinners of the flood generation who are possibly referred to in 1 Peter 3:19. But many scholars think that there is no connection between these two verses, and that the dead here are Christians who have died since hearing the preaching of the gospel."

Acts 2:31 - This is referencing a psalm, that David wrote in first person about the lord saving him.

Ephesians 4:8-10 - is just Paul interpreting a Psalm that David wrote.

1 Peter 3:18-20 - This one has been debated since the beginning. There's apparently 18 major theories out there recognized by churches. Mainly because Peter quoted OT more than anything...Some use this as evidence that there is a purgatory and that "spirits in prison" referred to some intermediate state of death. Others thinks he's referring to the fallen angels of Genesis 6: 1-4.



Most of this seems to be just referencing language from the OT. No accounts of what Jesus said happened before that 3rd day.

In my mind it contradicts a lot of what people believe to a literal hell. I know a lot of people picture this sword wielding Jesus slashing through the demons and preaching to those who might just listen, but on the other hand those same people will tell you the reason those souls are in hell is because they rejected God. So why would they now accept, because it's too hot? In that case wouldn't all of hell follow? It's easy not to believe on Earth, but if you're actually living in hell and Jesus comes down and introduces himself, if anything "what's the worse that can happen?" This is why it doesn't make sense to me at all.

To me when they say he descended into hell means he was without God for 3 days.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:36 PM   #113
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
In my mind it contradicts a lot of what people believe to a literal hell. I know a lot of people picture this sword wielding Jesus slashing through the demons and preaching to those who might just listen, but on the other hand those same people will tell you the reason those souls are in hell is because they rejected God. So why would they now accept, because it's too hot? In that case wouldn't all of hell follow? It's easy not to believe on Earth, but if you're actually living in hell and Jesus comes down and introduces himself, if anything "what's the worse that can happen?" This is why it doesn't make sense to me at all.
You would think that all of Hell would follow. But you have people continually rejecting a free offer of God's grace. So I am not surprised that people reject Him - even from Hell.

And I doubt Jesus has to slash through demons to preach His message.


Also, good footnotes will highlight differing interpretations. The best will support the differing interpretations with cross references to other Scriptures supporting such views.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:51 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
^
Based on scriptural references (which are admittedly vague), it's surmised that during the three days when Jesus was dead, he descended into Hell to preach the gospel to those in torment.

That's one of several interpretations of those verses.

That's what LDS/Mormon Church teaches.
And therefore the billions that have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ will have an oppurtunity there.

There are different realms of Hell/Spirit Prison and Paradise.

Makes sense to me that God is fair and just giving all of his children an oppurtunity to choose how they want to progress in the hereafter.

dbs
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:57 PM   #115
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But you have people continually rejecting a free offer of God's grace.
Maybe here on Earth. But come on you mean to tell me some choose to live in this horrible transluent fire we keep talking about? That goes against everything taught about hell.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:02 PM   #116
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Maybe here on Earth. But come on you mean to tell me some choose to live in this horrible transluent fire we keep talking about? That goes against everything taught about hell.
It is not a continuing offer, but one that occured at the time of Christ's incarnation, death & ressurection.

People today get their choice here on earth. And still make the choice to go it alone.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:02 PM   #117
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That's what LDS/Mormon Church teaches.
And therefore the billions that have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ will have an oppurtunity there.
But what about after Christ's ascension?

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

There are different realms of Hell/Spirit Prison and Paradise.
So does this mean LDS believes in a hierarchy of sin?
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:04 PM   #118
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People today get their choice here on earth. And still make the choice to go it alone.
Yes but these are souls in hell, so now the mystery of if there's an afterlife is gone.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:09 PM   #119
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No mystery. nathan1977 was responding to the question "what about the ancients?" (I'm not sure how it impacts the choice we make as individuals today, but it is still an interesting question).

We don't know the response to Jesus' offer then, just that it was made. We know now what happens when the offer is rejected today.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:15 PM   #120
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But what about after Christ's ascension?



So does this mean LDS believes in a hierarchy of sin?
Christ did ascend unto the Father after visting Mary and his Disciples.
However while in the Spirit world during the 3 days we understand that a vast misionary program began and still exists today and will be in existence to the good and worthy souls who were good ppl here and are seeking his Gospel there.

So...every Muslim or Hindu or decent agnostic will have that oppurtunity to receive it.

As far as degrees of sin and different degrees of glory of Paradise, yes you will delegate yourself to a place you feel most comfortable in the hereafter.


But it doesn't stop there you still may progress.

Part of the a person's hell could be knowing what he should of done in this life but choose to ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit here.

Jesus did say there are many mansions in my Father's house.

dbs
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