Westboro Baptist Church - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-09-2006, 02:05 PM   #61
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


I don't mean to be dense but what answer is that?

What about people who practice Hinduism? They haven't "accepted the invitation" because they've R.S. V. P. ed with someone else, if you will.
Think of it this way - a doctor has offered you a vaccine. If you want to find a cure some other way, that is up to you.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 02:12 PM   #62
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Just accept the invitation.


accept rejection?

the hubris.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 02:55 PM   #63
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
randhail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Outside Providence
Posts: 3,557
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Think of it this way - a doctor has offered you a vaccine. If you want to find a cure some other way, that is up to you.

some studies show a link between vaccines and autism - so it doesn't work for everyone and you may be better off without it.
__________________
randhail is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:12 PM   #64
Acrobat
 
enggirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Superstar Trailer Park
Posts: 435
Local Time: 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


When someone has something good to share, I think it is natural that they would want to share them. I can only make an offer - the rest is up to you and God.
For too many Christians, it isn't sharing but FORCING. Sharing is sharing. It's saying "Hey, this is what I believe. I think it's cool. Do with it what you will." End of conversation. NOT "you're going to hell," "I feel so sorry for you," "You poor lost soul," etc.

As as for your lawsuit crack: If you are referring to the Pledge of Allegiance issue or putting the 10 Commandments on public space, it's an issue of FORCING someone. If a kid wants to silently prayer or whatnot in school, fine by me. But to force the school system to keep "god" in the pledge indicates a forcing of religion on the non-religious and those with other faiths (and the argument that it's "god" in the all-encompassing sense is malarkey--the US recognizes the Christian god over all others...).
__________________
enggirl is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:15 PM   #65
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I have considered it.

There is no proof he ever said it, or said it as you quoted it or even meant it as people interpret it. None.

What was said 2000 years ago, what was recorded, and how it was recorded is an open ended question for many of us.

Some of you accept the Bible as the final authority and accept Scripture as it is. Some of us do not and that is a large gap, and there is no way to say who here is correct.

Which is why I think, live a good life, let God sort it out when we depart. Bottom line for me.
You raise some good points. But consider this — the Gospels, which are the account of Christ's life and teachings were written or recorded in a relatively short time following his death and resurrection. The latest was about 70 A.D. (if I'm not mistaken) and I think the earliest was about 40 or 50 A.D.

I know, they seem like they were recoreded a long time after his death. But consider this too —*similar recordings of other historical figures are considered accurate or historically correct despite being written 100 or more years following their death. We're talking entire generations later. Then you have the gospels, which were written during the same generation as when Christ walked the earth. Something important was going on here. Plus, with the thrust of Christianity following his resurrection and keeping in mind the fact that his followers were dying for their faith, I think there would be heavy objection if something was recorded that he didn't say.


As far as living a good life and letting God just sort it out — I encourage you to put more thought into that.

First of all, what's your standard of "good." If all we all have to do is live up to our own standards of good to get into heaven, then I'd expect to be there with al-Zaqarwi. Again, we're dealing with a God of justice. If justice is the goal, then there has to be something to measure up to. We get this in Christ's life. By living a sinless life, which he was able to do so being both God and man, he set the standard.
To say we can just be good is missing the mark. The standard is set very high here. Any attempt on our part to reach this would be in vain. That's why through his death in our place and resurrection, we can give our lives to him and, in doing so, we experience righteousness with God, or "being right with God," or, in this case, "good."
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:22 PM   #66
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
WildHoneyAlways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In a glass case of emotion
Posts: 8,158
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


You raise some good points. But consider this — the Gospels, which are the account of Christ's life and teachings were written or recorded in a relatively short time following his death and resurrection. The latest was about 70 A.D. (if I'm not mistaken) and I think the earliest was about 40 or 50 A.D.

I know, they seem like they were recoreded a long time after his death. But consider this too — similar recordings of other historical figures are considered accurate or historically correct despite being written 100 or more years following their death. We're talking entire generations later. Then you have the gospels, which were written during the same generation as when Christ walked the earth. Something important was going on here. Plus, with the thrust of Christianity following his resurrection and keeping in mind the fact that his followers were dying for their faith, I think there would be heavy objection if something was recorded that he didn't say.
Speaking as a historian, the Gospels, as they exist today, are not great primary sources.
__________________
WildHoneyAlways is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:28 PM   #67
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 10:31 AM
i think God loves Jews, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, and pretty much anyone who chooses to love him first.

the rest is all window dressing designed by humans to glorify themselves first.

and WHA makes a good point.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:49 PM   #68
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



yup.

if said God is going to keep certain people "out" -- as if it's a treehouse with a "no girls allowed" sign -- then i'm not so certain i want "in."
I see where you're coming from Irvine, but this isn't how it works. If it were the case, I'd agree with you.

The truth is God wants us to spend eternity with him. that's why Christ had to die. So he's died for us. Then he commands Christians to spread this news. He's reached out to us. It's up to us to reach back.

As far as keep us out of heaven, he doesn't do that. It's up to us. All we have to do is make a decision. He could force us to come to heaven, but that wouldn't be a God of love. Instead he gives us the choice of how we want to live, but he reaches out to us in many ways.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:58 PM   #69
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,290
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Think of it this way - a doctor has offered you a vaccine. If you want to find a cure some other way, that is up to you.
Since you like analogies:

The same doctor sees two patients. They are both diagnosed with the exact same Streptococcus infection. One is given penicillin. The other, having had an adverse reaction to the penicilin in the past, is given gentamycin. They are both cured exactly the same way in the end.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:02 PM   #70
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,290
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


You raise some good points. But consider this — the Gospels, which are the account of Christ's life and teachings were written or recorded in a relatively short time following his death and resurrection.
So?

Do you mean to tell me that you remember verbatim what your boss said to you this morning? And so people would remember something verbatim 5 decades after? And especially given the fact they had motivations to write the gospel in a certain way and shed Jesus in a certain light.

Until the Council of Nicaea, the early Church did not even agree on the exact status of Jesus. The Arians certainly had different views than you hold today.

I don't believe the gospels are good historical documents nor do I believe they were written in an objective way.

ETA:

Quote:
Again, we're dealing with a God of justice. If justice is the goal, then there has to be something to measure up to. We get this in Christ's life.
And you don't get it in the Buddha's life?
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:06 PM   #71
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Then he commands Christians to spread this news.
And that's fine, spreading news is one thing, commanding and trying to control how others choose to behave and live is something else. Then rubbing someone's perceived wrongdoing in the face of grieving families at the moment of transition is, I dunno, strikes me as (among other things) extremely unChristian.

Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Instead he gives us the choice of how we want to live,
Which seems so unacceptable to so many people of faith with repsect to those who disagree with some or all of their views. That's what I find most frustrating.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:38 PM   #72
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
Speaking as a historian, the Gospels, as they exist today, are not great primary sources.
Are you suggesting modern philosophy as a better source?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:38 PM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


Speaking as a historian, the Gospels, as they exist today, are not great primary sources.
Then what about the original manuscripts/letters?


BTW, I'm with you on the Sox. I've been a fan since Thomas came up (actually, since Bo Jackson came over.)
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:40 PM   #74
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Since you like analogies:

The same doctor sees two patients. They are both diagnosed with the exact same Streptococcus infection. One is given penicillin. The other, having had an adverse reaction to the penicilin in the past, is given gentamycin. They are both cured exactly the same way in the end.
If the doctor says there are two (or more) ways to get cured, great take your choice.

Telling a doctor that my way is as good as His may make me feel better, but won't cure me.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:52 PM   #75
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Are you suggesting modern philosophy as a better source?


modern philosophy has volumes written by the original philosophers -- primary sources.

intellectually, this is far more "reliable" source material.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com