Westboro Baptist Church

[Liesje]

These should give them something to think about:

Judge not, that you be not judged.

For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you

Let love be your greatest aim.

I like this one:

Go home and tell your friends what great things the Lord has done for
you and how He has had compassion on you.

 

[phanan]

Re: Re: Westboro Baptist Church

As with many messages, there is a kernel of validity to what they might want to be saying buried down somewhere. Frankly, it is so poorly communicated and done with intentional shock value that the kernel is completely lost.

What do you think the "kernal of validity" is in this case, out of curiousity?

 

[nbcrusader]

Re: Re: Re: Westboro Baptist Church

What do you think the "kernal of validity" is in this case, out of curiousity?

There were no specific examples given in this thread - but a google search reveals the general statements of the group.

A kernel may be "living in definance of God's Word brings God's wrath". Scripture has demonstrated this numerous times.

The elevation of homosexuality as a sin by this group is entirely incorrect.

 

[phanan]

Yeah, it's a bit more than a kernel with them...

 

[coemgen]

Awesome job, LivLuv. Those are great verses.

See! How can they ignore these?

 

[Liesje]

Awesome job, LivLuv. Those are great verses.

See! How can they ignore these?

Don't get too excited. I just did a random search, so I'm probably just as guilty as taking them WAY out of their context, hehe.

Also, I did a google search for "Bible verses tolerance" and ALL I could find were sites saying that people were taking the "judge not lest ye be judged" verse out of context to justify homosexuality

 

[coemgen]

You didn't take them out of context. It's a very simple verse. Those people are wrong. Christ was very clear on judging people. God is the ultimate judge. I'll leave it up to him because he knows everything and is a fair, just God. I'm a stupid human.

What the sites you found may be trying to get at is that if we as Christians see people doing something that we know from God's word to be harmful to them or to be something that goes against God's will, it's OK to gently correct them in love, or encourage them in the right way. If I have a friend looking up porn, I'm not supposed to judge him and look down on him and consider him a pervert or whatever, I'm to simply confront him in love and explain why it's not the best route for him and the dangers it could lead to. That is, in fact, how Christ treated those who sin. Consider how he spoke to Mary Magdalene.

However, those sites seem to have more of a political agenda than a genuine concern for homosexuals.

For me, my biggest concern isn't that someone is gay, it's that they don't know Christ. What bugs me about Christians who focus on all things homosexual is that even if that person stopped being homosexual and but they still didn't know Christ, they're no different from anyone else spiritually. They're still sinners like the rest of us.
Whether someone knows Christ or not should be the ultimate concern of every Christian, and this is something we can't judge someone on, but rather something we must encourage them toward in love and respect.

There's my soapbox.

 

[Irvine511]

what about homosexuals who know christ?

 

[coemgen]

If they truly know Christ, then that's awesome.

 

[ouizy]

What if they only kind of know Christ, or Ouizy for that matter does that make them any more or less a sinner.



I tend to judge no one lest those who do evil unto me.





...and to them, I bring down a wrath so hard that they better truly know Christ, or Ouizy for that matter.

 

[coemgen]

What if they only kind of know Christ, or Ouizy for that matter does that make them any more or less a sinner.

Good question. We're all sinners. The Bible tells us this, so knowing Christ doesn't mean you never sin again. (It also doesn't give you an excuse to sin). It means your sins can be forgiven and that you won't be held accountable for them. We all want justice. We cry out for it. So does God. And being God — all knowing, holy, the essence of love, etc. God is the final judge, and a fair one at that. Sins really are nothing more than crimes against God. Knowing our nature though, he gave us a get-out-of-jail-free pass through the death and resurrection of Christ. Jesus paid the penalty, because God knew we were all on death row.
If you know Christ, and give up your life to him and seek to live like he did and develop a relationship with him, you get that pass too.

BTW, I'll try not to do evil to you. I have a feeling your wrath is pretty powerful.

 

[enggirl]

How about, instead of insisting on helping people to know Christ, we just try to be good humans?

I think it should be about DEEDS and not WORDS. I think people get too caught up in talking a good game but then they forget to act on it.

I try to act out of compassion and kindness. Yeah, I still do stupid, mean shit sometimes, but I try to learn from it and then be a good kid. No offense, but I don't "know" Christ, and, frankly, I don't want to know Christ. I've been an athiest for almost 4 decades and will very likely die an athiest. People pushing their agenda on me turns me completely off... I've come across plently of "Christians" who think that just saying stuff makes them good. I'd rather see what people do and decide if I like them/want to be their friend/etc. I have Christian friends and workmates who are fine people--they believe in actions and not just talk. And they don't take me on as a personal project.

And THAT'S one thing that pisses me off about this whole Phelps thing. It's connected to what I just said. SUDDENLY everyone pays attention to it when it's military funerals--but this has been going on for a loooong time. And the fact that NOW it's a horrible, terrible thing just shows the hypocricy of some people who profess to be compassionate and "Christian." They've turned their back on some people and glorified others because of a label. You know, some of those "heroes" (jeez, I hate that word--it means nothing now) might have been complete a-holes in their lives; furthermore, some of those "sinful homosexuals" might have been wonderful, helpful people who gave of their time and selves. But we've slapped a cheap Wal-mart flag on it all...


AArgh, I'm just making myself mad and possibly making other people here mad, too. This isn't meant to attack anyone so please, please don't take it that way. As you can tell, I'm rather passionate about this. There was a thread about it a while back and I pretty much said the same thing then. Damn Ralph Phelps.

 

[deep]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Westboro Baptist Church

A kernel may be "living in defiance of God's Word brings God's wrath". Scripture has demonstrated this numerous times.

so Pat Robertson is right?

if you believe scripture



or Pat Robertson is wrong and
just uses disasters to further his personal agenda


is it possible that disasters that happened during Biblical times
may have been used to further some other agenda?

 

[deep]

Good question. We're all sinners. The Bible tells us this, so knowing Christ doesn't mean you never sin again. (It also doesn't give you an excuse to sin). It means your sins can be forgiven and that you won't be held accountable for them. We all want justice. We cry out for it. So does God. And being God — all knowing, holy, the essence of love, etc. God is the final judge, and a fair one at that. Sins really are nothing more than crimes against God. Knowing our nature though, he gave us a get-out-of-jail-free pass through the death and resurrection of Christ. Jesus paid the penalty, because God knew we were all on death row.
If you know Christ, and give up your life to him and seek to live like he did and develop a relationship with him, you get that pass too.

BTW, I'll try not to do evil to you. I have a feeling your wrath is pretty powerful.

So ouizy better accept Jesus or he won't get that pass too?

 

[ouizy]

That will not happen.




However, I am on the search for that pass albeit using an alternate route.

 

[nbcrusader]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Westboro Baptist Church

so Pat Robertson is right?

if you believe scripture



or Pat Robertson is wrong and
just uses disasters to further his personal agenda


is it possible that disasters that happened during Biblical times
may have been used to further some other agenda?

There is a flaw in both your logic and theology.

Fortunately, no one has suggested that Robertson is the sole speaker for God.

It is interesting that God's plan can be marginalized as another agenda.

 

[nbcrusader]

So ouizy better accept Jesus or he won't get that pass too?

Dig a little further into Scripture for your answer.

 

[coemgen]

So ouizy better accept Jesus or he won't get that pass too?

Yes, this is the case. However, I didn't say it. Jesus did.

 

[coemgen]

That will not happen.


However, I am on the search for that pass albeit using an alternate route.

Be careful here, ouizy. It's easy to want to follow a path that best fits us, but that doesn't mean the destination is right.

Truthfully, there isn't an alternate route. That sounds harsh, but think about it. If God sent his son to die for us so that we may have eternal life with him by accepting his son as our Lord, would he really allow an alternate route? To me, that doesn't make sense. It certainly wouldn't hold up to God being a God of justice.

Just give that some thought, and consider that Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to the Father, but by me."

Very exclusive, I know, but truth shouldn't be in fashion.

 

[Irvine511]

Truthfully, there isn't an alternate route. That sounds harsh, but think about it. If God sent his son to die for us so that we may have eternal life with him by accepting his son as our Lord, would he really allow an alternate route? To me, that doesn't make sense. It certainly wouldn't hold up to God being a God of justice.

Just give that some thought, and consider that Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to the Father, but by me."

Very exclusive, I know, but truth shouldn't be in fashion.

so 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.0 billion Indians aren't going anywhere when they die?

 

[nbcrusader]

Nationality has nothing to do with this.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Okay, what about the Hindus living in India?

 

[coemgen]

It's not up to me to say where people go after they die.
I can tell you what Christ said though.

I run into these questions a lot. It's not easy. Again, God's fair in his judgement. Of course I want those who haven't heard of Christ's love and sacrifice to learn of him and know him — that's a commandment actually. I'm also praying for those who have heard, and have rejected God.

 

[anitram]

Just give that some thought, and consider that Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to the Father, but by me."

Very exclusive, I know, but truth shouldn't be in fashion.

I have considered it.

There is no proof he ever said it, or said it as you quoted it or even meant it as people interpret it. None.

What was said 2000 years ago, what was recorded, and how it was recorded is an open ended question for many of us.

Some of you accept the Bible as the final authority and accept Scripture as it is. Some of us do not and that is a large gap, and there is no way to say who here is correct.

Which is why I think, live a good life, let God sort it out when we depart. Bottom line for me.

 

[nbcrusader]

Okay, what about the Hindus living in India?

I think God has given all of us the same answer.

 

[Irvine511]

Which is why I think, live a good life, let God sort it out when we depart. Bottom line for me.

yup.

if said God is going to keep certain people "out" -- as if it's a treehouse with a "no girls allowed" sign -- then i'm not so certain i want "in."

 

[nbcrusader]

yup.

if said God is going to keep certain people "out" -- as if it's a treehouse with a "no girls allowed" sign -- then i'm not so certain i want "in."

You miss the point. There is no "keep out" sign. The invitation is there for everyone.

Just accept the invitation.

 

[enggirl]

You miss the point. There is no "keep out" sign. The invitation is there for everyone.

Just accept the invitation.

The problem is that accepting the invitation means ignoring/giving up/rejecting too many other things. It says "This is the ONLY way" and "You're way is WRONG." And that's why so many of us send back a "No, thanks" on the RSVP. I accept that you and many others believe in Christ...but I ask that Christians accept that I do not--and don't try to change me.

When's the last time an athiest came knocking on anyone's door, trying to "convert" them?

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

I think God has given all of us the same answer.

I don't mean to be dense but what answer is that?

What about people who practice Hinduism? They haven't "accepted the invitation" because they've R.S. V. P. ed with someone else, if you will.

 

[nbcrusader]

The problem is that accepting the invitation means ignoring/giving up/rejecting too many other things. It says "This is the ONLY way" and "You're way is WRONG." And that's why so many of us send back a "No, thanks" on the RSVP. I accept that you and many others believe in Christ...but I ask that Christians accept that I do not--and don't try to change me.

When someone has something good to share, I think it is natural that they would want to share them. I can only make an offer - the rest is up to you and God.

When's the last time an athiest came knocking on anyone's door, trying to "convert" them?

They usually use law suits