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Old 09-21-2007, 10:20 AM   #106
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He did use a weapon, but he did not utter the n word. I told you he's a gangsta guy, loves hiphop and dresses and acts black and has always been the furthest thing from racist. The neighbors didn't even come outside until it was over and they saw the cops's lights and wanted to save their friend from being charged with attacking my cousin. They were lying. I think the white cops feeling forced to take up for the black guy over the white because they were being afraid of being called racist is a big part of this.

He's also beat up plenty of white guys too but was never charged. He does have a temper, and he was defending himself from an attack. As much as I don't like it I can understand him being charged with the wounding and even given a year or two but 20 years and a hate crime is totally outrageous and wrong. It was a result of the repo, he was the one who called the cops before he was attacked when he saw trouble brewing, and there was not hate crime in any way. He would have done the same thing if they guy was white, the guy was not targeted or hurt for his color, it was because he attacked my cousin from behind in a headlock and started beating him up. If that hadn't happened he never would have touched him. He was only there to do his job and take the car.

As for spreading the word, I will have to ask the family, they are embarrassed and don't want names mentioned. I don't think it would do any good, though.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:18 PM   #107
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Originally posted by Butterscotch
He did use a weapon, but he did not utter the n word. I told you he's a gangsta guy, loves hiphop and dresses and acts black and has always been the furthest thing from racist. The neighbors didn't even come outside until it was over and they saw the cops's lights and wanted to save their friend from being charged with attacking my cousin. They were lying. I think the white cops feeling forced to take up for the black guy over the white because they were being afraid of being called racist is a big part of this.

Read my post again. I'm not saying he's a racist. I'm saying the evidence against him is very damning, be it true or not.

The cops have to report what they are told, they aren't doing their job if they do anything less.

He broke the law, there's no doubt about that, but the burden of his defense will have to be trying to prove the witness wrong.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:39 PM   #108
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THANKS sue!

how could i forget ole NR!

i kept thinking
andrew wythe and think nah, that's not quite right!

well, like i said i've only seen it once..not printed up as an example often i guess.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:43 PM   #109
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Read my post again. I'm not saying he's a racist. I'm saying the evidence against him is very damning, be it true or not.

The cops have to report what they are told, they aren't doing their job if they do anything less.

He broke the law, there's no doubt about that, but the burden of his defense will have to be trying to prove the witness wrong.
I know that, but when you have no witnesses other than yourself, you are in trouble. They should consider things like the fact he called the cops first, and that he was on a repo job and not out to attack anybody on purpose.
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:42 PM   #110
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I know that, but when you have no witnesses other than yourself, you are in trouble. They should consider things like the fact he called the cops first, and that he was on a repo job and not out to attack anybody on purpose.
Yes you are in trouble, if it's just you.

I agree that his call to the cops should be considered, but the repo job doesn't help his case much, people don't take kindly to repo men with weapons.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:28 AM   #111
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He was told to carry one because other repo men had been attacked, even shot at. People don't take kindly to repo men but it's not okay to attack one.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:40 AM   #112
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He was told to carry one because other repo men had been attacked, even shot at. People don't take kindly to repo men but it's not okay to attack one.
I never said it was ok... You sure jump to conclusions a lot.

It doesn't matter what he was told, it's illegal.
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Old 09-22-2007, 09:25 AM   #113
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I've never seen one.
There's a difference between "rational" and "right." If you can convince people that Minority Group X are dangerous, then it's easy to make a "rational" argument for why certain restrictions or negative actions must be taken against them.




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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But I guess the point I was trying to make is 'what comes first the ignorance or the greed'? Did greed motivate them to think black people are lesser human or was it the ignorance that allowed them to think this? In other words, if you were taught that the world was flat and didn't question it, then the world was flat. But let's say you weren't taught the world was flat, but it would be profitable to believe so, could you convince yourself to believe the world was flat just because it would make you money?
I would argue that the greed came first. In the early years of the settlement of the New World, blacks and whites were both brought over as indentured servants and essentially treated eqaully as far as I understand it. Look at the way black/white racism has developed in this country and it's radically different and far more corrosive than the more common "fear of the foreign Other" prejudice found in many other parts of the world. Whites NEEDED blacks to be inferior, that's my point. There was a point where they weren't treated any differently than white indentured servants and then there was a point where they were.

I see where you're coming from and I don't entirely disagree. I just think saying that "all racists are ignorant" is too easy. . .kind of like saying "all terrorists are cowards" (another common sentiment I disagree with). It feels good to say but I question how true it really is.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:48 AM   #114
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Originally posted by maycocksean

Look at the way black/white racism has developed in this country and it's radically different and far more corrosive than the more common "fear of the foreign Other" prejudice found in many other parts of the world. Whites NEEDED blacks to be inferior, that's my point. There was a point where they weren't treated any differently than white indentured servants and then there was a point where they were.


Though they did look at the blacks as 'inferior' they never hated them or became extreme in their segregation tactics until after reconstruction. I think they resented the blacks who had been 'beneath' them being put in positions over them and after the occupying union army left they took out their resentment on the blacks themselves. This extended up until the Civil Rights movements of the 50's and 60's. It's not right, but that's what happened and why you hear about the blacks being treated so bad.It is a disgrace on our nation. The concept of blacks being 'inferior' to whites is a US invention. It was never anywhere else as far as I know. In the days of the Bible the Africans were regarded as equals and their kings and queens revered.

Quote:
I see where you're coming from and I don't entirely disagree. I just think saying that "all racists are ignorant" is too easy. . .kind of like saying "all terrorists are cowards" (another common sentiment I disagree with). It feels good to say but I question how true it really is.
Terrorists are not cowards, they are the bravest people in the world to have the inner strength to commit an act they know is going to kill them. Even military people, while always at risk, never intend to die. I'm not defending them, I think they're terrible, but they're not cowards! Of course it is their religion and brainwashing by their leaders that they will be glorified in the afterlife for what they to that gives them the courage. It's not something many Americans would ever do.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:06 PM   #115
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^Well, the Nazis saw them as inferior, as did for example Rudolf Steiner, the founder of the Waldorf education.

You would find this resentment all over Europe as they saw themselves as the highest being on earth.

Everything that was not white and Christian was seen as inferior: Africans, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Aborigine, Maori...
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:39 PM   #116
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So terrible. They give West Virginians (like me) a bad name. Screw them.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:41 PM   #117
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Though they did look at the blacks as 'inferior' they never hated them or became extreme in their segregation tactics until after reconstruction.
Because they didn't have to. They ran the show until the Civil War. They could afford to be expansive and generous with "their people" because ultimately they had complete control over the lives of their slaves. While many slaveowning whites might not have felt they "hated" their slaves, their feeling were hardly what I would call "okay." And I think there was ALWAYS, always, an undercurrent of fear of their slaves. The closest thing I can think of to this outside of the American culture would be the description of the relationship between the main character in the novel "The Kite Runner" and his best friend/servant who was of a minority group in Afghanistan that were generally treated as servants.

There is something deeply ugly about this type of prejudice--it's a prejudice borne not out ignorance and distance, but out of "knowledge" of a sort and close proximity. Blacks and whites in the South before slavery, and to a degree, after, lived, worked, and played very close together. Black women nursed white babies, raised white children. There were even sexual unions of questionable consensuality. The problem here, was not ignorance. Far from it. There was nothing you could have done to "educate" whites in the South. They had an evil system--a system that dehumanized both the owners and slaves-- on which their society, economy, and culture were built, and prejudice was their way of protecting that system and their own consciences.
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Old 09-23-2007, 12:00 AM   #118
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They had an evil system--a system that dehumanized both the owners and slaves-- on which their society, economy, and culture were built, and prejudice was their way of protecting that system and their own consciences.
But isn't the definition of such a system ignorant. I mean they were ignoring the facts that black people bled just like white people, they felt just like white people, they loved just like white people...

I think you and I are talking about the same thing we're just defining it differently. Maybe that's why we can't erase it. Maybe we can't find the defining moment in human existence that actually causes one to be racist... I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. I've always found it to be a conscious effort to ignore the facts, which in my mind equals ignorance. But maybe it's greed that allows folks to ignore the facts... I don't know, I'll never understand it.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:47 AM   #119
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But isn't the definition of such a system ignorant. I mean they were ignoring the facts that black people bled just like white people, they felt just like white people, they loved just like white people...

I think you and I are talking about the same thing we're just defining it differently. Maybe that's why we can't erase it. Maybe we can't find the defining moment in human existence that actually causes one to be racist... I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. I've always found it to be a conscious effort to ignore the facts, which in my mind equals ignorance. But maybe it's greed that allows folks to ignore the facts... I don't know, I'll never understand it.
I think I see where we differ. I see ignorance as "unconsciously ignoring the facts" or being "ignorant" of the facts. Perhaps comon ground for us would then be "willful ignorance." Which would fit, I think with your first paragraph. After awhile, though the self-deception that began it all is complete and of course in future generations, who have known nothing else the racism becomes engrained.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:10 PM   #120
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I think I see where we differ. I see ignorance as "unconsciously ignoring the facts" or being "ignorant" of the facts. Perhaps comon ground for us would then be "willful ignorance."
Fair enough. I always found it interesting that the word ignorant has the root word ignore, which implies an effort, yet 'ignorant' is often defined as just lack of knowledge...
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