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Old 09-14-2007, 10:59 PM   #61
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^

I agree.

Judges generally have a relatively broad discretionary power when it comes to sentencing, and this can be applied to some extent in a "hate" crime rather than labeling the crime as such and prosecuting it in that vein.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:19 AM   #62
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With all the obvious or possible loopholes in the hate crime laws, I would rather see them convicted on crimes aganist someone of dimished mental capacity. Just to ensure it sticks and they get the maximum sentence. By the familys on admission she was overtly friendly and I think the people who brought her to the sickos are also cupable. All these suspects are a threat to society, period.. and should be put away so some unsuspecting person doesn't ever have to run into them ever again, either by accident or any other reason.
This is a perfect example of "this is your brain on drugs" in these people cases, their faces too. They are all crack and/or meth users or whatever they can get their hands on.
Only a seriously depraved mind and or the above mentioned drugs, can come up with this kind of darkness.
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Old 09-15-2007, 04:43 AM   #63
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My understanding of the status of "hate crime" with regard to the WV case is that federal hate crime charges weren't pursued because this case doesn't fit the federal statute, which entails racially motivated use of force, or threats of force, to prevent the victim from engaging in certain specific federally protected activities (voting, using government services, employment, jury duty, participating in federally supported programs, public education, traveling by common carrier, or patronizing an establishment open to the public). I really don't know enough details to have an informed opinion as to whether or not any of those specific activities could be proven to have been interfered with in Megan Williams' case, but at any rate the federal attorney for that district indicated that he thought not. So far as I know, the possibility of the state prosecutors pursuing WV hate crime charges remains on the table, but thus far they're still working on amassing evidence to support the charges which carry the highest penalties (kidnapping, sexual assault, malicious wounding, battery). At the state level, the definition of "hate crime" is generally much broader--for example, an "ordinary" assault may also qualify for hate crime charges, so long as the prosecution can establish beyond a reasonable doubt that race was the precipitating factor rather than an incidental one. However, a racial epithet having been uttered at one point by one of the perpetrators (Karen Burton) isn't likely to suffice by itself to meet that test. On the other hand, I wouldn't think that the existence of some prior "relationship," whatever that was, between Bobby Ray Brewster and Megan Williams would suffice to rule it out, either. I don't myself get the impression that the state prosecutors are simply looking to blow it all off, but it's really still too early to tell.

And I'm puzzled by Butterscotch's reference to the Jena 6 case--if the Jena 6 were at any point charged with a "hate crime," that's news to me. They were charged with aggravated second-degree battery (on the logic that the soles of the tennis shoes they kicked the white student in the head with qualified as "deadly weapons") and one of them just yesterday had that charge dropped because he'd been inappropriately tried as an adult rather than a juvenile, though that's unlikely to be the end of his charges.
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Old 09-15-2007, 04:49 AM   #64
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
but hate crime is all subjective? That to some people the 'n' word is very offensive and to others its not so much? IF said with virtroil and viciouness that word becomes hate intesified, but if said with a laugh with friends its not?

I'm pretty sure when beating someone it's not used as a laugh...

Regardless anyone who uses it with a laugh should be questionable, it's not a laughable term.
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:34 AM   #65
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i agree, hate crimes are a touchy issue. but the thing that makes it different from any other crime is that it is biased (racially, etc.) when it becomes something done out of hatred for a culture, it is more than a crime against that individual. then that entire culture within that community is threatened. that is usually the intention of the crime anyway i would guess, is not that it is necessarily meant to just target that one individual, but that it was meant to strike fear and threaten other individuals in that same culture.

but...i'm no law expert, i've only taken 2 courses in law in my lifetime. having experienced hate crimes myself in my own community, as well as other crimes, i can definitely see a difference between the two.
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:52 AM   #66
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no i mean like guys calling each other it while horsing around etc.
People use it a lot in a familiar way 'n-word pleeeeeease' etc, but it is not said in a hateful way, but from another person's lips it is?

edit: btw i'm not trying to argue anything, just asking questions.

I also agree with what lies said!
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:58 AM   #67
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The intent of that person and why he used that word is what counts. If the intent was funny, and both agreed on this, it's obviously not hate.
If the intent was hateful and meant in a derogatory way it obviously is hate.
That's just called context.
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:01 AM   #68
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Funny we're talking about the Jena 6...only "hate crime" I see in that story is white on black.

http://www.countercurrents.org/woodward120707.htm

Yolland's point makes sense though re: why these deviants weren't charged with federal hate crimes.
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:17 AM   #69
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Again - it shows how subjective the law is.

It also shows that no matter how far we think we're taking in steps away from racism, its still there - on both sides. Perhaps we'll never be able to stop both sides from hating each other. I mean nooses in a tree is wrong, and offensive, but its not relevent in this day and age - they did it to get a rise, and they got one, the 6 boys played right into their hands. If they had done something else - mocked them back, or held their heads high and not let it get to them - i think it sends a stronger message.
I also believe that their charges are so seriously inflated its not funny.

But then i don't believe that these people would have no done this vicious crime to a white girl. don't think it was racially motivated, they seem half deranged anyway, and perhaps the woman was the only one to answer the ad and travel to see him, her family said she was very trusting. I don't believe, and it shouldn't happen, that they'd be charged with more if it was a white woman. I also think calling her the n word was just a derogatory put down, like if they called a white woman and whore or a dirty slut or something - i know the conotations are slightly different but there isn't a word to completely match up with the n-word, but the contaxt and viciousness would still be there.
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:24 AM   #70
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i'm still unsure whether i believe this WV crime was a hate crime myself. however i'll raise holy hell if these bastards don't do the same or worse amount of jail time as the Jena 6.
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:54 AM   #71
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i agree. They're crimes are WORSE then the jena 6, so they should do more crime. They kept this woman hostage, and did horrible unspeakable things to her. The jena 6 were violent in a moment of passion. BIG difference!
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Old 09-16-2007, 11:29 AM   #72
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What happened to that poor woman was so awful. As a bit of related "positive news", this was a fun article about a clever and creative counter-demonstration against a KKK rally.

http://asheville.indymedia.org/article/107Clowns
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:39 PM   #73
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I didn't want to bring this up, but I want to know what you think of what happened to my cousin. He is a 29 year old guy who has black friends, always loved rap, hiphop and dresses ghetto and is the farthest thing from racist. He is also an unwed dad of 3 kids by 3 different girls he owed child support for and he had no job. In desperation he took a job with a car repo company that dealt with shady car dealers and most of their repos were in the 'hood.' He was told by his boss to take a weapon in case someone got mad at him, that some of their drivers were even shot at. He thought he could handle it and took a nightstick. On new year's eve he was repo-ing a car when this black dude comes out of the house and starts screaming for him to stop. My cousin said I'm sorry but you didn't pay and it's my job and continued to hook up the car to the towtruck. Then the black guy comes out and lays in front of the car and begs him not to take it. My cousin discreetly dialed 911 on his cell and continued to hook up the car. Then the black guy jumps him from behind, getting him in a headlock and choking him and threatening how he'll hurt him if he takes the car. So my cousin pulled out the nightstick and started fighting the guy off and the more the guy punched the harder he pounded with the nightstick. In the fight they were both bloody but the black guy's skull got cracked. Just then the cops pulled up, and the black guy started yelling that my cousin called him the n word and attacked him for no other reason than being black. 2 of his neighbors came out and backed him up. The cops who were both white had no choice but to listen to the black guys over the white one or get called racist. So they arrested my cousin and he spent New years in jail because there was no magistrate on duty. He was charged with malicious wounding, but also a 'hate' crime. With no prior record he might have gotten off on a couple years even probation, but because of the hate crime the federal prosecutor came in and he got 20 years in prison even though it was self defense and nothing to do with the color of the guy. he is out on appeal now but it doesn't look good for him. So you can see why I question these things as unfair sometimes.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:05 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
I didn't want to bring this up, but I want to know what you think of what happened to my cousin. He is a 29 year old guy who has black friends, always loved rap, hiphop and dresses ghetto and is the farthest thing from racist. He is also an unwed dad of 3 kids by 3 different girls he owed child support for and he had no job. In desperation he took a job with a car repo company that dealt with shady car dealers and most of their repos were in the 'hood.' He was told by his boss to take a weapon in case someone got mad at him, that some of their drivers were even shot at. He thought he could handle it and took a nightstick. On new year's eve he was repo-ing a car when this black dude comes out of the house and starts screaming for him to stop. My cousin said I'm sorry but you didn't pay and it's my job and continued to hook up the car to the towtruck. Then the black guy comes out and lays in front of the car and begs him not to take it. My cousin discreetly dialed 911 on his cell and continued to hook up the car. Then the black guy jumps him from behind, getting him in a headlock and choking him and threatening how he'll hurt him if he takes the car. So my cousin pulled out the nightstick and started fighting the guy off and the more the guy punched the harder he pounded with the nightstick. In the fight they were both bloody but the black guy's skull got cracked. Just then the cops pulled up, and the black guy started yelling that my cousin called him the n word and attacked him for no other reason than being black. 2 of his neighbors came out and backed him up. The cops who were both white had no choice but to listen to the black guys over the white one or get called racist. So they arrested my cousin and he spent New years in jail because there was no magistrate on duty. He was charged with malicious wounding, but also a 'hate' crime. With no prior record he might have gotten off on a couple years even probation, but because of the hate crime the federal prosecutor came in and he got 20 years in prison even though it was self defense and nothing to do with the color of the guy. he is out on appeal now but it doesn't look good for him. So you can see why I question these things as unfair sometimes.
Well it's still a "he said, he said" issue. We don't really know how it went down. I'm sure your cousin is a great guy, but we still don't know exactly how it went down.

Yes, this is a problem, but it's a problem with the system in general. This is a case with weak evidence to motive. Because the motive is weak the hate crime, I would say should be dropped, but the physical evidence is hard to surpass. The man has a fractured skull. And legally there isn't anything that says a repo man can carry a weapon. This is a very sticky case.
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Old 09-17-2007, 05:58 AM   #75
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I haven't seen a nicer group of inbreds since "The hills have eyes".....

I really wish the death penalty was mandatory in cases like this...
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