We're In Charge

[nbcrusader]

Cartoon Protesters Direct Anger at U.S.

The U.S. base was targeted because the United States "is the leader of Europe and the leading infidel in the world," said Sher Mohammed, a 40-year-old farmer who suffered a gunshot wound while taking part in the demonstration in the city of Qalat.

I bet we should be apologizing for something....

 

[yolland]

This just goes to show how much more this is really about in most Muslims' minds than mere irreverence for Muhammad. I have read so many editorials and opinion pieces now in the Muslim press worldwide that explicitly locate these cartoons in a broader context of "they're closing ranks against us" to justify military action in Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq, and perceived continued political meddling elsewhere.

 

[BluRmGrl]

The U.S. base was targeted because the United States "is the leader of Europe and the leading infidel in the world," said Sher Mohammed, a 40-year-old farmer who suffered a gunshot wound while taking part in the demonstration in the city of Qalat.

Sweet Jesus!! 'The US is the leader of Europe...'. All those extra taxpayers mean the taxes I have to pay just plummeted, right?


But we're the 'stupid Americans'....

 

[Axver]

Well, at least briefly, the US got a chance to rest and let some other Western country be the most hated.

But the USA can't not be #1 for long, can it?

 

[SunBloc]

"The U.S. base was targeted because the United States "is the leader of Europe and the leading infidel in the world," said Sher Mohammed, a 40-year-old farmer who suffered a gunshot wound while taking part in the demonstration in the city of Qalat."

"They are all the enemy of Islam."....

This sounds like a new cold war to me. Scary times.....

 

[verte76]

I can't believe what people are doing just because of a cartoon. What a lethal drawing!

 

[Irvine511]

the Leader of Europe!?!?!



someone tell France!

 

[nbcrusader]

I can't believe what people are doing just because of a cartoon. What a lethal drawing!

Lethal drawing or lethal teachers inciting the violence?

 

[Justin24]

I think it is more the teachers. It's the Imams who take it to far. The people are weak minded and believe what ever the Imam tell them.

 

[aislinn]

the Leader of Europe!?!?!



someone tell France!

 

[yolland]

The people are weak minded and believe what ever the Imam tell them.

In the Muslim press worldwide, some of the strongest condemnations of the violence have come from imams. There were several Muslim religious leaders who waded desperately into the crowds at the embassy in Lebanon, pleading for calm--they got pelted with stones and spit by the extremists (many of whom had bussed in from Syria) for their efforts. And the Muslim religious leaders who begged the London police to expel the "slay-the-infidels"-sign-waving followers of Omar Bakri Muhammad from their peaceful demonstration were ignored by the police. Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani of Iraq strongly condemned the violence, and Muslim religious leaders in Gaza organized their followers to stand guard at local Christian churches in case they should suffer any backlash by association.

I think it is more likely that people who are attracted to hateful imams, are attracted to them because they are saying what they already want to hear. Even in areas like rural Afghanistan or Pakistan where the local imam's word is gold (and there is usually only one imam in such places), this has more to do with cultural precedents concerning loyalty and communal obligation than with "weak-mindedness."

 

[Judah]

^ what nb and Justin said.

The extremists (on both sides) want to perpetuate the cliched clash of civilizations. Stuff like this will only further embolden the major right-wing parties in European countries...especially after the recent Moslem riots in France. Watch for an ever increasing "keep-the-brownies-out" movement in Europe.

Moslem peoples' energies would be better spent in demanding of their governments, their leaders, and their imams that they deliver upon the many progressive values of Islam that Mohammad promoted. Values of community and communal programs...looking after the poorest and the disadvantaged. Ironically, these are values that Denmark holds and practices...universal public health care and education; a commitment to the environment; a commitment to human rights and third-world development (Denmark's level of Official Development Assistance is 1% of their GNP; the UN asking target, and Bono's, for countries is for .7%).

I am embarassed by the moral bankruptcy and basic hypocracy of most Moslem countries and their leadership (my original country, Pakistan, included...though i still love the country and visit it often).

My recommendation to my brothers and sisters: less whining, less victim mentality and more action to make your leaders provide you with opportunities for better lives.

 

[yolland]

Watch for an ever increasing "keep-the-brownies-out" movement in Europe.

But don't you think stereotypes of hopelessly weak-minded Muslims, blindly submitting their intellectual authority to their religious leaders, contributes to such phobia? Such thinking was once a crucial factor in persecution of Catholics in many places, too. ("Popery is incompatible with democracy!")

I fully agree that for Muslims worldwide to start expecting more from their leaders (especially political ones) is a necessary prerequisite for improving things. As is moving away from a Slay-the-Dragons mentality towards an approach which seeks to reclaim the "progressive values" you speak of (in some ways, not unlike what the Christian Left sees its mission as here). But I also think combating stereotypes is a two-way street, and certain influential Danish politicians, not to mention Queen Margrethe, have hardly been consistent in their own pronouncements in that regard. If we (white Euro-Americans) come out of the corner swinging and suggesting that mutual respect will be made contingent on adopting an exhaustively comprehensive program of social, cultural and political reform, then I fear respect will be a long time coming. Unfortunately, we tend to shrug off our own extremists as non-representative twerps when they're behaving badly, then turn around and give credence (and votes) to them in "weak" moments when their fears coincide with ours. It is almost entirely right-wing papers which have been reprinting these cartoons.

 

[verte76]

It is almost entirely right-wing papers which have been reprinting these cartoons.

I wonder why the right-wing media has been publishing these things?

 

[Judah]

But don't you think stereotypes of hopelessly weak-minded Muslims, blindly submitting their intellectual authority to their religious leaders, contributes to such phobia? Such thinking was once a crucial factor in persecution of Catholics in many places, too. ("Popery is incompatible with democracy!")

I fully agree that for Muslims worldwide to start expecting more from their leaders (especially political ones) is a necessary prerequisite for improving things. As is moving away from a Slay-the-Dragons mentality towards an approach which seeks to reclaim the "progressive values" you speak of (in some ways, not unlike what the Christian Left sees its mission as here). But I also think combating stereotypes is a two-way street, and certain influential Danish politicians, not to mention Queen Margrethe, have hardly been consistent in their own pronouncements in that regard. If we (white Euro-Americans) come out of the corner swinging and suggesting that mutual respect will be made contingent on adopting an exhaustively comprehensive program of social, cultural and political reform, then I fear respect will be a long time coming. Unfortunately, we tend to shrug off our own extremists as non-representative twerps when they're behaving badly, then turn around and give credence (and votes) to them in "weak" moments when their fears coincide with ours. It is almost entirely right-wing papers which have been reprinting these cartoons.

Good points, Yolland. And I don't disagree. I guess you're saying answers, if there are any, will only be found in the middle ground. My comments were to point out that if (generally speaking) the Moslem countries are to have any success in finding a common ground, they must first have credibility with their own people, and that's hard to attain when every facet of your society/government/institutions (i speak just of Pakistan here, as an example) is beset by hypocracy and corruption.

 

[yolland]

Originally posted by Judah
My comments were to point out that if (generally speaking) the Moslem countries are to have any success in finding a common ground, they must first have credibility with their own people, and that's hard to attain when every facet of your society/government/institutions (i speak just of Pakistan here, as an example) is beset by hypocracy and corruption.

Well, no disagreements with you on that count. I am teaching a seminar on Muslim politics in South Asia right now, and it is always food for thought to see how the South Asian Muslim students (there are always a few in that class) respond to this competing perceptions dilemma. On the one hand, they are often (rightly) defensive, in a protective sort of way, about the very real kinds of integrity and civic-mindedness which *are* to be found in their communities, however unrecognizable these may seem to Westerners at first blush. On the other hand, they are often scathing in their condemnation of the hypocrisy, corruption and kowtowing to "traditional" chauvinisms that goes on in their native political environs (the Indians and Bangladeshis as well as the Pakistanis), and despair about whether there is sufficient collective will to tackle these problems. I can empathize somewhat, because as a Jewish American I often feel similarly caught between when the topic of Israel comes up. Sometimes I worry that we expend far too much mental and emotional energy on micromanaging these how-shalt-we-label-them debates to have enough left over for the more important task of mapping out a doable way forward.

In your opinion, does the net effect of always having a global media spotlight trained on it all help or hurt? On the one hand, it can force reflection on things we'd otherwise prefer to look the other way about; on the other hand, it can provoke a dissent-choking storm of self-righteous defensiveness. I go back and forth with myself about this constantly...