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Old 03-29-2006, 12:19 AM   #76
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They also feed our economy...


But what the hell are you talking about as far as removing the government, are you suggesting we invade?
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Old 03-29-2006, 12:22 AM   #77
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No, the mexican people or people of their own country should remove their government as a first step towards a better life. Why not have Criminals farm for us as their punishment. Then we would not have to use illegal immigrants. Have we americans grown to lazy to grow our own food, surely we as people in the united states can get back to our roots?
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Old 03-29-2006, 12:38 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
No, the mexican people or people of their own country should remove their government as a first step towards a better life.
Because it's so easy...
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24

Why not have Criminals farm for us as their punishment. Then we would not have to use illegal immigrants. Have we americans grown to lazy to grow our own food, surely we as people in the united states can get back to our roots?
Roots? Once again you show a huge lack of history here...um who do you think did most of the farming when America was starting? It's not a matter of laziness, it's a matter of economics.

Talk to a farmer today and you will find out very quickly why cheap labor is needed.

My family comes from a long line of farmers, they still use illegal labor. Yes technology has helped some, but it doesn't make up for the high cost. My grandfather was one of 12, why do you think they had so many children? Free labor.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:30 AM   #79
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This is absolutely besides the point. In business, those who succeed often look for unrecognized voids in the marketplace. I certainly do not expect a mass exodus of Americans to flee the country. And why would they? But there are a minority of us out there who would like to have the world at our fingertips. And why not? American multinational corporations already have it, and nobody has called them "un-American" for doing just that.

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how was that besides the point? i was referring exactly to what you said ...
And i am not sure what you are trying to argue against my post (i am taking no offense). Trying to look for work in another country/ liv in another country (hey, I am basing my whole eductaion/ future carreer on that) is completely fine with me. My point was that i cannot see that Americans who do are specially hindered by other Governments (unless there is special tension I suppose). I also suppose you are talking about high skilled labour. People from most western countries also do not go to seek foreign jobs as cleaning personel or else, but rather in terms of gloablization (multinationals etc). This is surely not compararble to the illegal immigrant situation of (lower skilled) mexicans, right? Besides, no big cooperation will hire illegal immigrants.

I think you misunderstood my post a bit I was purely referring to your "floodgate" statement
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:26 AM   #80
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But as an illegal do not march down our streets carrying Mexican flags demanding the same rights as American citizens born here, and those that came here legally.
If you are here illegally, work through the process of becoming legal.
This goes to the 11 million already here illegally - and who will be most affected by the House and Senate bills (it will take some time to work out the significant differences between the bills).
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:05 AM   #81
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Roots? Once again you show a huge lack of history here...um who do you think did most of the farming when America was starting? It's not a matter of laziness, it's a matter of economics.
When this country first started out they had used Africans and Native Americans. When they saw that the Native American population was declining due to diseases, they used Africans who had more strength and were immuned to the diseases white people had.
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:32 AM   #82
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You just proved my point.
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:48 AM   #83
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But we have a law of the land now and they entered illegally. Like I said before, we can use our prison population to farm for us and other things as punishment. Why must we create all these special programs for them, it's my money that is going towards those programs.
I also think if they are arrested their mother countries should pay us to house them in our jails.
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Old 03-29-2006, 12:04 PM   #84
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I think its a pretty common misconception that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes.

The day labor workers obviously don't but a hotel maid working for Marriott or Hilton (with a false Social Security number) is going to have taxes taken from her check. Tax preparation firms are everywhere in the largely immigrant areas of Orange County where I live, so someone is paying taxes
Most illegal immigrants not only pay social security taxes with fake IDs, they don't get the social security benefits from those taxes, accounting for billions of dollars in social security surplus each year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/bu...=all&position=

Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
The New York Times, April 5, 2005

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.
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Old 03-29-2006, 12:21 PM   #85
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just my two cents.

I think that it is unfair for many to leave their country, their people, looking for the opportunities that their natal country can't give to them. It is really unfair to get to a new place where many will be prejudiced against you, and you will be obligated to work in the jobs that the first class citizens like to avoid.

If many of us are going to the USA if because something bad is happening in our own countries. To be honest I rather to stay here, working as a graphic designer, a professional, with a little income than working in another country as a maid or a baby sitter. I know it sounds arrogant but at least I have an option, ( at least for now, you never now when the things will go down). there are many here who don't have any options or just don't see it.

Many people had leave my country because of the violence and the lack of oportunities. I don't blame them, if my life or my family's would be in risk I would do what is possible to be saved, even leave, but I don't know if emigrating, even more if it is illegal, is the answer for all the cases. A country with many people leaving or wanting to leave it is not a country anymore, it is like a jail.

I don't support illegal inmigration... but not because of the reasons you might think of. Illegal inmigration is, for me, like the last resource, you have to sell your dignity, and that's not fair. I'm a latin american, and I don't want to be considered as a plague.
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Old 03-29-2006, 01:05 PM   #86
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Originally posted by Muggsy
just my two cents.

I think that it is unfair for many to leave their country, their people, looking for the opportunities that their natal country can't give to them. It is really unfair to get to a new place where many will be prejudiced against you, and you will be obligated to work in the jobs that the first class citizens like to avoid.

If many of us are going to the USA if because something bad is happening in our own countries. To be honest I rather to stay here, working as a graphic designer, a professional, with a little income than working in another country as a maid or a baby sitter. I know it sounds arrogant but at least I have an option, ( at least for now, you never now when the things will go down). there are many here who don't have any options or just don't see it.

Many people had leave my country because of the violence and the lack of oportunities. I don't blame them, if my life or my family's would be in risk I would do what is possible to be saved, even leave, but I don't know if emigrating, even more if it is illegal, is the answer for all the cases. A country with many people leaving or wanting to leave it is not a country anymore, it is like a jail.

I don't support illegal inmigration... but not because of the reasons you might think of. Illegal inmigration is, for me, like the last resource, you have to sell your dignity, and that's not fair. I'm a latin american, and I don't want to be considered as a plague.




very interesting post -- nice to see a non-North American viewpoint.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:34 PM   #87
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Originally posted by Justin24
But we have a law of the land now and they entered illegally. Like I said before, we can use our prison population to farm for us and other things as punishment. Why must we create all these special programs for them, it's my money that is going towards those programs.
I also think if they are arrested their mother countries should pay us to house them in our jails.
What? What happened to your whole back to the roots, lazy argument?

Yeah that's what we need, prisoners allowed on private citizens property with tractors and large open fields...
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:42 PM   #88
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My mom is from Guatemala and my Dad's mom was from Guatemala. I am so sick of these illegal immigrants. Coming over here breaking the law by running accross the border. Spending my money.
Ohh I have to feed my kids, I came here for a better life, cause I am to STUPID to figure out how to better my country, so I think I will go to someone elses country and turn it into little Mexico or some other third world country.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:55 PM   #89
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You are an idiot, Justin24. I don't see how morons like you grew up in a beautiful land of opportunities like the States and such smart people down here struggle to make ends meet.

And then gringos wonder why there is such resentment against them.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:58 PM   #90
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I am not an idiot. I am sure you have your national pride. Why can Mexico have a strong border patrol along the yucatan, where they brutalize immigrants that pass through there, yet we cant protect out own boarders.

They would not have to stuggle if they started to change the way the government runs things.
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