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Old 11-16-2005, 07:51 PM   #1
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We All Have Ancestors Who Were Slaves

Check:
http://www.freetheslaves.net/slavery/timeline/

We all have ancestors who have suffered under slavery.


It's not about one certain race, but a very evil institution
that has hurt all races, all people, thoughout history.


It would be nice, if we could stop dragging past sins into the present (for whatever reason) and get active in trying to eliminate slavery forever.
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:11 PM   #2
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My relatives actually owned slaves on a plantation in the south. I can't really feel ashamed of it though...it's not my fault. I'm certainly not proud of the fact though.

It is a beautiful plantation that I love to visit a couple of times in the year.
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
Check:
http://www.freetheslaves.net/slavery/timeline/

We all have ancestors who have suffered under slavery.


It's not about one certain race, but a very evil institution
that has hurt all races, all people, thoughout history.


It would be nice, if we could stop dragging past sins into the present (for whatever reason) and get active in trying to eliminate slavery forever.

"It's not about one certain race,"


really?????






Bring the Chidren!!

and tell them it is not about race.
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:28 PM   #4
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Sex slavery goes on today and it is hardly bound by race or religion.
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:35 PM   #5
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Is the purpose of this thread to minimize the heinous crime of the institution of slavery in the development and history of the United States

by the red herring of comparing "other" slaves ?
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:38 PM   #6
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deep,

The images you posted are evil.

I do not deny, but you are missing the whole truth on slavery.

It's been all over us...all through history.


*all of our ancestors suffered*


And slavery continues now.
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
d
*all of our ancestors suffered*

Is it fair to equate ancestors who were slaves 4000 years ago to those whose children experienced institutionalized racism less than a few decades ago?
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Is it fair to equate ancestors who were slaves 4000 years ago to those whose children experienced institutionalized racism less than a few decades ago?


Why should the time period matter?


Should we simply ignore slavery today because it will not matter in three hundred years?
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse




Why should the time period matter?

Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse







Should we simply ignore slavery today because it will not matter in three hundred years?

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Is the purpose of this thread to minimize the heinous crime of the institution of slavery in the development and history of the United States

by the red herring of comparing "other" slaves ?




so i guess your answer is


yes
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Old 11-16-2005, 09:01 PM   #10
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deep,

The time period on slavery in the U.S. ran from about 1619-1865.


I'm not sure what you mean by "other slaves."

This "heinous crime" you refer to has occured in all time periods and to all people.

That is what I am trying to say.
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Old 11-16-2005, 09:10 PM   #11
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would you suggest that Jewish people should not make a big deal about the holocaust


because we all have ancestors that were murder victims and people are still dying at the hands of others today?
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Old 11-16-2005, 09:17 PM   #12
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The difference between 4000 years and 150 years is that the latter took an additional 100 years for the 14th and 15th amendments to be actually enforced. There are still blacks alive whose lives were affected irreparably by American bigotry, many of whom were forced into substandard education and jobs.

Looking at all the generations of poor whites in the South shows that it is not easy to dig yourself out of poverty, even if you have the benefit of being part of the dominant hegemony.

So don't be patting yourself on the back yet. We have much more to do if we really want to erase the cultural memory of slavery.

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Old 11-16-2005, 09:33 PM   #13
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It strikes me as somewhat odd that when someone tries to bring slavery into a global perspective, specifically to the end where they wish to abolish it on a global scale; where it is clearly a larger issue, where people do heinous things to other people based on accidental qualities (read: for arbitrary reasons), that he gets dismissed so quickly.

Slavery is not a white institution. It is an institution of humanity. A horrendous one, at that. I believe that was the point. So no, slavery 200 years ago and slavery 2000 years ago are not different whatsoever. Maybe slaves 200 years ago were shipped from their native lands, tortured, beaten, worked to death, or hung -- and so were slaves 2000 years ago, shipped from their native lands, tortured, beaten, worked to death, hung, fed to lions, or in other cases entire villages massacred, etc. The issue isn't slavery specifically, but what slavery represents: dehumanization.

Slavery, murder, etc, all represent an unabashed dismissal of the dignity of human life. If you are the target of racism, dehumanization, or what I'll call from now on 'hate' for the sake of not repeating a list of qualifiers every time, -- if you're subjected to arbitrary hate, it doesn't matter if you're african, european, american, asian, or a combination thereof; it doesnt matter if you're a christian, a muslim, hewbrew, catholic, zoroastrian, pagan, whatever; the point is that the greatest attrocity that can be commited by man is to dehumanize another man, to strip a person of their dignity and security, and to (whether by degrees or immediately) make their lives hell until ending them.


If anything, I would have thought that Iron Horse was making a good point, that rather than focusing on the 'Hate-issue-du-jour' like France, or the American South, we should be focussing on all of them. All of them. Giving one group a privelige over another is exactly the issue. Saying 'stop hate in France' or 'stop hate in the US', though it may infer that you wish to stop hate globally, does not state it.

Since we're talking about logic, too; if you haven't been given a peice of information, it is not logically sound to infer meaning because that leads to falsehoods. Slavery is analagous to dehumanization and hate. So, to that end, rather than making inflammatory statements that are specifically directed towards the end of 'minimizing crimes' or whatever bullshit that was; it's completely absurd, because that isn't what Iron Horse was doing.

So, to that end, Deep, answer your own question. Is it about 'minimizing the heinous crime of the institution of slavery in the history of the US'? No. It's about 'minimizing the heinous crime of the institution of slavery', period. Minimizing it in the future, by raising awareness about the all-encompassing atrocity it is. Americans aren't the only ones guilty of hate, as you imply by your Holocaust examples. Hate needs to end. That should be the only statement extracted from anything Iron Horse said.

I'm not sure how 'Stop Slavery In All Forms Now' equates to 'racism in certain other forms is okay, and therefore I'm a racist biggot'. Where's that red herring now? We cannot change the past, but we can change the future.




Edit:

Sorry, I feel I haven't been clear.

What Iron Horse said is this:

'Every Instance of Slavery is Unacceptable'

So, I'm at a loss to understand how he could be interpreted as saying 'some instances of slavery are more acceptable than others' when that is clearly not what he said.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:19 PM   #14
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^ An inference based on familiarity; new twist, old plot. Not saying I agree with it, but there you go.

Most likely, this thread was occasioned by the "Racist Folk Songs?" thread posted a few hours before it.
Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
I'm not sure how 'Stop Slavery In All Forms Now' equates to 'racism in certain other forms is okay, and therefore I'm a racist biggot'.
And speaking of reading too much into what other people are saying...

"Bring the Children" was maybe a bit over the top, but ironically so, not in earnest (another inference based on familiarity here ).
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:26 PM   #15
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I don't think iron horse was attempting to downplay slavery experienced by black people in the United States...he was only pointing out that many different groups have suffered under it throughout history, and the justifications for it have gone beyond one particular race. I honestly don't understand how the post is racist or bigoted or offensive in any way.
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