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Old 11-17-2005, 12:51 PM   #31
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Old 11-17-2005, 12:54 PM   #32
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(this is kind of funny)
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Old 11-17-2005, 12:55 PM   #33
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Old 11-17-2005, 12:57 PM   #34
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cookie monster gets 'em every time ...






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Old 11-17-2005, 01:04 PM   #35
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It is true that many people of many different ethnic groups have suffered from slavery. That goes without saying. It also goes without saying that slavery is indeed a matter of race.

Like some posters, particularly Irvine and mattgerth and anitram have pointed out, it is completely out of line to compare slavery 2,000 years ago (Romans) to transatlantic slave trade.

Reparations have to be enforced as means to help the descendants of slaves that are still suffering today. Slaves were shipped from Africa to the Carribean, e.g. Haiti, Jamaica, and many slaves were shipped from there to the U.S. as well.

I have been active in the case of Reparations for a couple of years. Anyone who wants to prove me wrong, you will first need to read up.

There is no reason to feel guilty for crimes ancestors committed, like someone pointed out. This is not more about guilt of US citizens than anything. Don´t bring it to a personal level. When we talk about Reparations, we talk about a couple of policies like defined at the World Conference Against Racism in Durban. Who will have to pay Reparations? Corporations who made profits on it and governments. We´re mainly talking about European countries here. England, Spain, Portugal, France, the Dutch, name it.

The difference is that there are records of that time. Roman Empire, ok, now to who do you want to offer compensation for that crime nowadays? Impossible to find that out.

There have been Reparations for Holocaust victims, and there have been Reparations for the Natives in Australia. Reparations for transatlantic slave trade is long overdue.

By all means, it can be combined with Repatriation. Let the people who want to return to where they came from, return. To Africa. What did Bob Marley sing --> Exodus. Movement of Jah People. Let them use their know-how to enrich this continent.
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Old 11-17-2005, 01:05 PM   #36
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Then, could you articulate the political ends of the iron horse's original post?
I don't know his exact intentions, but it's interesting that it comes about right after his post in the "racist folk song" thread.

But many would use this argument, to downplay slavery of blacks and state "we all came from slavery backgrounds and I'm doing fine, why aren't you?" They would use the argument to erase all connections with slavery and segregation to the current economic and education background of the majority of African Americans now in the U.S.
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Old 11-17-2005, 02:27 PM   #37
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I don't have any ancestors who were slaves- my great grandparents left Ireland for America and while they were probably poor and struggled, nothing they experienced could ever compare to what African Americans experienced here. They were free and treated like human beings, not property. And there's no point in comparing it anyway, the slavery of any human being diminishes us all.
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Old 11-17-2005, 04:04 PM   #38
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I am also descended from a slaveowner. I don't feel guilty for it as the guy died way before I was born. I'm not proud of it, needless to say.
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:53 PM   #39
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Doesn't it also serve other political arguments to ignore the fact that slavery 4000 years ago and slavery 150 years ago is different? To just throw your arms up and say, well we all have slaves somewhere in our bloodline so it really doesn't matter, serves a political end as well.
I agree, however I don't see how that's what iron horse was implying. Obviously there are tangible effects of the legacy of slavery/discrimination against blacks in this country, and that needs to be discussed.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I simply took the original post as reminding people that slavery historically has been more than white americans against black americans...and keeping that in mind, we can help to end forms of slavery that still exists in other parts of the world.
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Old 11-17-2005, 09:09 PM   #40
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I agree, however I don't see how that's what iron horse was implying.
And I did say, that I don't know his intentions, but to ignore the difference between 4000, 2000, or even 1000 years ago to 150 here in the US is just ridiculous.
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:36 AM   #41
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And I did say, that I don't know his intentions, but to ignore the difference between 4000, 2000, or even 1000 years ago to 150 here in the US is just ridiculous.
This, of course, started when instead of asking iron horse for clarification, we got pictures of lynchings and a suggestion of racism.

It may be better if we sought understanding instead of maintaining the battle lines.
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:50 AM   #42
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I don't have any ancestors who were slaves- my great grandparents left Ireland for America and while they were probably poor and struggled, nothing they experienced could ever compare to what African Americans experienced here. They were free and treated like human beings, not property. And there's no point in comparing it anyway, the slavery of any human being diminishes us all.

I am not sure when exactly your great-grandparents emigrated but if it was in the nineteenth century, and if they were tenant farmers as opposed to landowners, I am not sure I would agree with your statement that 'they were treated like human beings, not property'. The ordinary Irish at that time had no real freedom, no real rights, tenant farmers had no tenure and could be evicted at the whim of the landlord. This is a form of economic slavery. The way the British treated the Irish in that era was pretty shabby. I think it is actually comparable in some ways to the way the slaves were treated in America.
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Old 11-18-2005, 12:32 PM   #43
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This, of course, started when instead of asking iron horse for clarification, we got pictures of lynchings and a suggestion of racism.

It may be better if we sought understanding instead of maintaining the battle lines.
Actually it was iron horse that said:

Quote:
Why should the time period matter?
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Old 11-18-2005, 12:37 PM   #44
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And that justifies the accusation of racism?
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Old 11-18-2005, 12:42 PM   #45
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And that justifies the accusation of racism?
You quoted me originally. I was answering in context. Did I say racism?
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