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Old 11-16-2006, 08:20 PM   #16
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Well, Bonovox assuning YOU have all the info, I guess nothing you mentioned would warrant that. What about not cooperating? I have seen many police officers taze people who were not being complient. When you are asked by an officer of the law to do something, you have 2 choices: comply or defy. I guess we all make choices....
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Ok, honestly what actions demand tazing?
I'm sure different police departments have different guidelines, but as a general rule, the idea behind them is that they provide an alternative to deadly force in situations where the offender is armed or resisting violently. Arizona was the first state to adopt widespread use of them (Taser Co. is located in Scottsdale) and their reasoning was that use of tasers in dangerous situations might help reduce shootings both of offenders by police, and of police by offenders. The original intent was not merely to make offenders more compliant--although that seems to be exactly how the UCLA police used them here. Neither the police report nor the eyewitness accounts suggest that Tabatabainejad was resisting violently.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Well, Bonovox assuning YOU have all the info, I guess nothing you mentioned would warrant that.
I asked you an honest question, I'm sorry you couldn't answer it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby

What about not cooperating? I have seen many police officers taze people who were not being complient. When you are asked by an officer of the law to do something, you have 2 choices: comply or defy. I guess we all make choices....
I've seen many who didn't cooperate with officers and they got handcuffed and dragged out, and get this, without using a tazer.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Neither the police report nor the eyewitness accounts suggest that Tabatabainejad was resisting violently.
Exactly.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:27 PM   #20
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What gets me is this kid was in the LIBRARY. Do cops think that this place is a hotbed of criminal behavior? It's not like he was a drunk fool after a football game causing trouble. He didn't have a school idea on him? Whoop-di-doo. Look his name up in the student directory, do something besides use the taser.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:51 PM   #21
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What you dont get is that since he apparently wasn't complying, the next step would be some sort of physical altercation. So now the police officer is put in a position to engage this person physically, or let this little device do the talking. I could see from an officers POV, I might not want to put myself in harms way unneccesarily I still believe for the most part these tazer devices are fairly safe. They've been used for years and we're now just starting to hear How Bad they are.. I mean I think I would rather be tazed than pepper sprayed, personally. You weren't there and neither was I. I do know one thing: when I'm asked by the cops to do something, generally I tend to comply.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
But then he probably would have been yelling police brutality and the students in the library would have acted the same. All Instinct. You can still get up after being tazed. Your muscles have to relaxe after a few seconds.
Physically, maybe. But after the first tazing, he appeared to be pretty hysterical. From the video, he sounds like he was saying he was on his way out (albeit in a belligerent way). Did the police try to calm him down before by talking to him (from the video, it didn't seem like he was physically threatening anyone, just very upset)?
It seems the tazing escalated the situation, especially with the crowd. How long did the police talk to him before he was tazed? It seemed like at the end, they had him handcuffed and physically dragged him out. Why couldn't they have done that after he was first tazed? Was it really necessary to do it 4 more times?

I have seen people on the news or other tv shows get tazed for not cooperating with police orders, but I've never seen them do it over and over again. Usually, don't they taze them to subdue them so they can handcuff them? Was the guy resisting violently after he was handcuffed (kicking)?

A lot more information has to be received in this case I think.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
What you dont get is that since he apparently wasn't complying, the next step would be some sort of physical altercation. So now the police officer is put in a position to engage this person physically, or let this little device do the talking. I could see from an officers POV, I might not want to put myself in harms way unneccesarily I still believe for the most part these tazer devices are fairly safe. They've been used for years and we're now just starting to hear How Bad they are.. I mean I think I would rather be tazed than pepper sprayed, personally. You weren't there and neither was I. I do know one thing: when I'm asked by the cops to do something, generally I tend to comply.
What you don't get was he was handcuffed and on the floor, what was he going to do? How was he going to harm the officers?

Lots of questions, and you haven't answered one.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24


I just want to know why it's so difficult for people to follow what a police officer asks you?
Believe it or not some people have principles(doesn't matter if you agree with them, understand them, or not) and those priciples are worth resisting arrest for. This individual felt like he was being kicked out unjustly. Like Randhail said a quick look in the records would have cleared this up...

It comes down to this, he wasn't being violent, period.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
What you dont get is that since he apparently wasn't complying, the next step would be some sort of physical altercation. So now the police officer is put in a position to engage this person physically, or let this little device do the talking.
Even if we accept this argument (which I think is weak), what compelled them to shoot him with the tazer another 4 times after the initial hit? The officers will have HUGE problems because of that, as they should.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What you don't get was he was handcuffed and on the floor, what was he going to do? How was he going to harm the officers?

Lots of questions, and you haven't answered one.
Funny because thats not what the news report said:

The footage showed the student, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, falling to the ground and crying out in pain as officers stunned him.


Why is it the schools resposibility to "check the records" to make sure this guys a student? Obviously, if he didn't have his student ID there was probably no way to validate who he was. The school had a policy. Have your ID with you to use the library. Quite Simple actually.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:15 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Abomb-baby


Funny because thats not what the news report said:

The footage showed the student, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, falling to the ground and crying out in pain as officers stunned him.
So, but what about the other 4 or 5 stuns? Was he going to do a running headbutt?

Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby

Why is it the schools resposibility to "check the records" to make sure this guys a student? Obviously, if he didn't have his student ID there was probably no way to validate who he was. The school had a policy. Have your ID with you to use the library. Quite Simple actually.
What's the first thing a cop does when he pulls you over? He runs your plates to see who you are. Sometimes people forget their IDs, it shouldn't be tazer worthy. Quite simple.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:24 PM   #28
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New article from the Daily Bruin.
Quote:
Community responds to Taser use in Powell

An incident late Tuesday night in which a UCLA student was stunned at least four times with a Taser has left the UCLA community questioning whether the university police officers' use of force was an appropriate response to the situation. Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a UCLA student, was repeatedly stunned with a Taser and then taken into custody when he did not exit the CLICC Lab in Powell Library in a timely manner. Community Service Officers had asked Tabatabainejad to leave after he failed to produce his BruinCard during a random check at around 11:30 p.m. Tuesday. UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m.

A six-minute video showed Tabatabainejad audibly screaming in pain as he was stunned several times with a Taser, each time for three to five seconds. He was told repeatedly to stand up and stop fighting, and was told that if he did not do so he would "get Tased again."

Tabatabainejad was also stunned with the Taser when he was already handcuffed, said Carlos Zaragoza, a third-year English and history student who witnessed the incident.

As Tabatabainejad was being dragged through the room by two officers, he repeated in a strained scream, "I'm not fighting you" and "I said I would leave."

The officers used the "drive stun" setting in the Taser, which delivers a shock to a specific part of the body with the front of the Taser, Young said. "It's an electrical shock. ... It causes pain," Young said, adding that the drive stun would not likely demobilize a person or cause residual pain after the shock was administered. But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser.

According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. The release also stated Tabatabainejad "encouraged library patrons to join his resistance." At this point, the officers "deemed it necessary to use the Taser in a "drive stun' capacity."

Neither the video footage nor eyewitness accounts of the events confirmed that Tabatabainejad encouraged resistance, and he repeatedly told the officers he was not fighting and would leave.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:29 PM   #29
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No one said forgetting your ID is tazer worthy. I agree with you that after he was cuffed, it should have ceased. What I don't like is people thinking that they're special and the don't have to follow rules like everyone else. I really don't think he would have gotten tazed as he was walking out the door. It is impossible to tell from the video what went on prior to the first tazing.
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:30 PM   #30
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During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser.
This is my favorite part.
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