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Old 02-12-2007, 09:09 PM   #31
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Yes. War goes hand-in-hand with death and destruction, so anyone who supports that is, without a doubt, stupid.
And "peace" goes hand in hand with leaving a fascist dictator that kills of tens of thousands each year with aspirations of WMD in charge while his next door neighbour goes nuclear; Saddam caused and was causing a lot of death and destruction in his kingdom and there was the threat that he would threaten outside it; but it's a moot point now because the narrative is a simple Bush Lied People Died, Saddam never ever had any WMD or supported terrorism and Saddam was what was best for Iraq thing.

The success of AQ in Iraq is bad, they may well force political defeat against the US but it is a different situation and a different problem than the one that Saddam Hussein represented.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:21 PM   #32
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And "peace" goes hand in hand with leaving a fascist dictator that kills of tens of thousands each year
A lot of that death and desctruction was caused by sanctions - including blocking food and medicine for the masses.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:26 PM   #33
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And "peace" goes hand in hand with leaving a fascist dictator that kills of tens of thousands each year with aspirations of WMD in charge while his next door neighbour goes nuclear;
Even if you do believe this, that would only be true of current situations whereas Axver's statement was true for all.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:26 PM   #34
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Yes, sanctions that prooved to be delivering billions of dollars into Saddams bank accounts. They were used as a weapon against the Iraqi people, failed completely to destabilise the regime and were exploited as a propaganda coup; sancitons had to be ended, but on what terms?
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:44 PM   #35
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Sanctions had to be ended on humanitarian grounds.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:54 PM   #36
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Remove sanctions and Saddam rearms, it was a shitty situation caused by decades of bad policies and any solutions would cause death - which one causes the least death?
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:55 PM   #37
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Justin, at this late date I would think that anyone arguing a 'pro-war' as you put it, viewpoint, should be tough enough to take any flak they get.

I mean, they are tough enough, right? They talk about other people's deaths with a stiff upper lip, they must be tough enough.

Pro-war. Well, 'stupid' is one of the kinder things you could say about that view of the world. I'd just call it wilfully evil.

And don't ever compare the war in Iraq to the Second World War because that really IS just stupid.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:59 PM   #38
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As for feeling guilt or the lack thereof if Iraq had been allowed to implode on it's own (a-wanderer's point, I believe)... what. the. fuck!?

Very, very, very clearly, this was a war of choice, and very clearly interventions of this sort are extremely selective. Zimbabwe has been imploding in slow motion for years. Do we feel guilt about that? Should we? Personally, I tend to say no, because 'we' have no damn right to 'intervene' in every country where bad things are happening. The hubris is mindblowing.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:09 PM   #39
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Re: Re: War!

Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


Yes. War goes hand-in-hand with death and destruction, so anyone who supports that is, without a doubt, stupid.

So the brave men who died on the beaches of France and the families who sacrificed a lot for the fighting men and woman are stupid?? So anyone who joins the military is stupid since joining can lead to war?
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


A lot of that death and desctruction was caused by sanctions - including blocking food and medicine for the masses.
And Kofi and Sons made a fortune off the scandal.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Remove sanctions and Saddam rearms, it was a shitty situation caused by decades of bad policies and any solutions would cause death - which one causes the least death?
It was a lot more than an arms embargo. It was meant to crush the economy.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:18 PM   #42
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Yes, and judging by the state of the Iraqi economy and infrastructure post-war it sure acheived those ends.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:20 PM   #43
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Re: Re: Re: War!

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Originally posted by Justin24


So the brave men who died on the beaches of France and the families who sacrificed a lot for the fighting men and woman are stupid?? So anyone who joins the military is stupid since joining can lead to war?
False statement; joining the military doesn't lead to war.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:26 PM   #44
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UNICEF has put the number of child deaths to 500,000. The reasons include lack of medical supplies, malnutrition, and especially disease owing to lack of clean water. Among other things, chlorine, needed for disinfecting water supplies, was banned as having a "dual use" in potential weapons manufacture.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:29 PM   #45
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Re: Re: Re: Re: War!

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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
False statement; joining the military doesn't lead to war.
Sorry it should be "Could lead"
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