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Old 11-22-2005, 06:18 PM   #16
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those are good questions Irvine, and living in the heart of Suburbia I would definitely like to see something other than chains. The area I live in was a rural nothing only a few decades, and literally the entire place has sprung up in the past 10-15 years...EVERY store or restaurant is a chain. It seems like there's a new strip mall every other week.

maybe the way to end this trend is through choosing to shop elsewhere (although in my case the only choice is super worldwide chain vs pricey regional chain). but why should we pay twice as much for food each week which would put a huge burden on us and do virtually nothing to bring down big bad wal-mart? like aislinn said, it just comes down to who can provide the lowest prices and for a lot of people that's wal-mart.
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:54 PM   #17
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I would generally be pro-free market, but wise corporations realise that treating staff well is a good way of doing business, and I do believe in having legislative recourse available for staff that are unfairly treated.
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:04 PM   #18
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Originally posted by VertigoGal
maybe the way to end this trend is through choosing to shop elsewhere (although in my case the only choice is super worldwide chain vs pricey regional chain). but why should we pay twice as much for food each week which would put a huge burden on us and do virtually nothing to bring down big bad wal-mart? like aislinn said, it just comes down to who can provide the lowest prices and for a lot of people that's wal-mart.


i totally understand. the corporations have got us over a barrel.

it does strike me as odd that we give powers to corporations that we would never, ever dream of giving government. this is not to pit business vs government, or to say that government needs powers on part with the freedoms we give business. perhaps it means that it is in our best cultural/spiritual/whatever interests to reign some of these beasts in. i fear we define what is and what isn't a "successful" business in extremely narrow terms.
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:24 PM   #19
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Maybe we should assess a windfall profits tax on Wal-Mart. After all, someone needs to pay for all the food stamps and other government welfare its employees are on.

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Old 11-22-2005, 07:40 PM   #20
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Maybe we should assess a windfall profits tax on Wal-Mart. After all, someone needs to pay for all the food stamps and other government welfare its employees are on.

Melon
That would be great. It really ticks me off to know about all those Walmart employees that are receiving welfare.
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Old 11-22-2005, 08:29 PM   #21
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What about all the poor and working poor who shop there because if they didn't they literally wouldn't be able to make ends meet from month to month. Why is it any different going there as opposed to going to a small independent record store that only pays minimum wage and doesn't have a union? Am I missing something here? Wal-Mart has created 1000's of jobs that would have otherwise NOT been created. Besides, Most retail Unions are fairly impotent. I mean, its not really hard to find someone to stock a shelf or ring a cash register. A strike threat is an empty threat...
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:18 PM   #22
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so when exactly did Jesus align himself with the supply side economics movement anyway ?
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:24 PM   #23
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so when exactly did Jesus align himself with the supply side economics movement anyway ?
Did you never hear the phrase 'What would Supply Side Jesus do?'
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:55 PM   #24
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Wal-Mart has created 1000's of jobs that would have otherwise NOT been created.
It also screws over that many people on a regular basis.
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Old 11-22-2005, 10:09 PM   #25
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Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Wal-Mart has created 1000's of jobs that would have otherwise NOT been created.
We could say the same about prostitution too; but that doesn't mean it's ethical. I'm surprised how Republicans defend Wal-Mart when your tax dollars are going towards providing food stamps and welfare to a good number of their employees, while the company is raking in $10 billion in profits.

But that goes to show that that comic I posted in the JFK conspiracy thread really holds a lot of truth.

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Old 11-22-2005, 10:11 PM   #26
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Did you never hear the phrase 'What would Supply Side Jesus do?'


I love a good excuse to crack these out.

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Old 11-22-2005, 10:15 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Abomb-baby
What about all the poor and working poor who shop there because if they didn't they literally wouldn't be able to make ends meet from month to month. Why is it any different going there as opposed to going to a small independent record store that only pays minimum wage and doesn't have a union? Am I missing something here? Wal-Mart has created 1000's of jobs that would have otherwise NOT been created. Besides, Most retail Unions are fairly impotent. I mean, its not really hard to find someone to stock a shelf or ring a cash register. A strike threat is an empty threat...
I agree with this. Some people just don't have the perspective.

Wal Mart has become the villain because of cheap prices that put smaller businesses under.

They can charge less, because they can buy more volume.

They can buy more volume because they have the money.

How did they make that money?

By starting like everyone of those poor 'mom and pop' chains that everybody feels so insufferably sorry for.

How did a farmer like Sam Walton become so bloody god damn rich?

First, he built stores, paid his employees better and had better benefits compartively. Then he started pricing low, making minimal profit initially. He made the big money when he expanded. Volume.

So he starts to make money, starts buying in volume, so he can sell cheaper. 1-not only is this a service to the less fortunate to be able to buy products that don't have fucking ridiculous profit margins (including some of those mom and pop stores) but 2-it's also a pure business strategy. So yeah he is a big bad capitalist, but he's also giving more back to the communties than Joe and Fred's Dsicount store on the corner because they can offer better product. Tell Joe and Fred to find another business, that's the way it works, fortunately or unfortunately. Joe and Fred are concerned about their own wallets and their 8 employees, why should I give a shit?

The difference between them and Sam Walton was pricing, always was and always will remain. Nobody can compete now with Wal Mart because they didn't grab that market share. Don't you see? He started off giving back to the people. Maybe we don't all admire everything that Wal Mart does, but why shoud I feel sorry for Joe BLow because he can't compete with Wal-Mart? You are not ENTITLED to run a successful business in this country.
Any company, Sears, Target who the hell ever could have done the same. They have been left in the dust because they wre more greedy, that is the truth. Wal Mart is a big bad evil empire because it was created by the needs of the marketplace, just like Microsoft, not by some dark hand of capitalism.

Consequently, all Wal Mart has done is create jobs, in a time when GM and other corporations are sending manufacturing jobs overseas. The service industry still is feasible because of places like Walmart.

It's like the moron geeks who bitch about Bill Gates and Microsoft, all he did was make something that everybody in the world wanted to own. You can't please everybody, especially those with no fucking perspective at all.

I find this thread at the same time that they announce the closing of GM plants across the country. In addition to thousands of other jobs that have vanished up into the stratosphere, where the big corporate fatcats are cashing their same checks, meanwhile giving the working class the middle finger. And yet people bitch about fucking Wal Mart. Maybe we should be bitching about how fucking congressmen across the board sold out our working class years ago, and now one of the few refuges for the blue collar worker is being lambasted. Makes sense.

Not only do these people who just got laid off need to find work, who knows they may end up working at Wal Mart for substantially less money, but it's about as secure as anything else short of a professional desk job.

I can tell you they will probably be shopping at Wal Mart, because there is nothing principled about taking a stand against the big bad evil Wal Mart when you struggle to feed your family and yourself.
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Old 11-22-2005, 10:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan
They can charge less, because they can buy more volume.
I understand this, but...

Quote:
First, he built stores, paid his employees better and had better benefits compartively. Then he started pricing low, making minimal profit initially. He made the big money when he expanded. Volume.
...I don't understand that.

http://www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmar...t%20study.html

* Reliance by Wal-Mart workers on public assistance programs in California comes at a cost to the taxpayers of an estimated $86 million annually; this is comprised of $32 million in health related expenses and $54 million in other assistance.

* The families of Wal-Mart employees in California utilize an estimated 40 percent more in taxpayer-funded health care than the average for families of all large retail employees.

* The families of Wal-Mart employees use an estimated 38 percent more in other (non-health care) public assistance programs (such as food stamps, Earned Income Tax Credit, subsidized school lunches, and subsidized housing) than the average for families of all large retail employees.

* If other large California retailers adopted Wal-Mart’s wage and benefits standards, it would cost taxpayers an additional $410 million a year in public assistance to employees.

But I guess that explains Wal-Mart's windfall profits.

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Old 11-22-2005, 10:24 PM   #29
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I'm willing to bet the thousands of people getting laid off from the GM plant a few miles from here will be shopping at Wal-Mart for a while.

melon, would the Wal-Mart employees on food stamps and welfare magically have no need for social programs if they didn't even have the Wal-Mart job? (I mean, you could argue they'd be in a better position at some quaint Mom & Pop Shop if Wal-Mart never existed in the first place, but what's done is done and all that...)
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Old 11-22-2005, 10:26 PM   #30
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Wal Mart has become the villain because of cheap prices that put smaller businesses under.
Not only that, but they also put their own clients out of business as well, by witholding fees so they gain that extra month or six of interest.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan

They can charge less, because they can buy more volume.
Common misconception. There are many products that they sell at price or less to suck consumers in, they will make money in returns and from the witholding of fees like stated above. I've seen many instances first hand. It's the people behind the big blue curtain that they fuck over.
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