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Old 01-05-2006, 06:04 AM   #46
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Originally posted by VertigoGal
I think it's a bit early to blame the Republican party for this.

The simple, elegant version of a point I was trying to make.

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Old 01-05-2006, 06:08 AM   #47
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I have been in NJ outside of Philadelphia for the last few days burrying my grandmother. The news story broke on this and many of us in the family spent a good deal of time praying for these people. We went to bed after the funeral thinking a miracle had occured and these people were alive. It was actually a perfect ending to a long day.

Yesterday when I woke up to find the story wrong I was upset to learn that something different had happened. However a miracle still occured. Someone is still alive fighting for their life.


As for the politics in this thread, I would only say that I was pretty disgusted with the Katrina politics in here, and it is disappointing to see it flare up. So many facts were thrown around in here that now appear to be completely false, yet during the crisis appeared to be true.

Can we take a step back and just breath before making yet another trajedy into a flame war in here?

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Old 01-05-2006, 06:49 AM   #48
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

The simple, elegant version of a point I was trying to make.

yes, but it's more fun to take shots directly at me.

i'm just getting warmed up.

mine safety is a major issue, and what's been going on since 2001 is just starting to come to the surface.

as for the similarities between this and katrina, let's avoid a misunderstanding at the outset for those more literal minded -- no one is saying that George Bush killed coal miners, or that George Bush created the fiasco at the superdome or blew up the levees. but what Katrina revealed was the fact that we have a massive problem with an enormous, and largely african-american, underclass in this country who don't seem to have any sort of political consequence. this could lead into a whole discussion on the current tax structure since 2001, but that's a bit too much for this thread ... and what this disaster is revealing is the fact that coal mining is exceedingly dangerous (and the fact that it's virtually the only decent paying job in the region if you don't have a college degree, so if you have a wife and kids, what choice do you really have?), and that safety inspections and regulations don't always do their jobs. why? where is it coming short? shit does happen, but how do we equip people to respond when shit happens? what can we do better? are we doing as much to safeguard the safety of miners as we have in the past?

what i am saying, and i think this is really rather hard to dispute, is that when a political party obsessed with deregulation and the dismantling of health, environmental, and safety standards comes to power, the safety of the planet and the safety of those who work in such positions decreases.

this also ties into the Abramhoff scandal, but that's another can of worms.

i think we're all better off, yes, as Dread said, taking a deep breath; but we shouldn't shy away from discussing an issue, speculating, drawing connections, connecting dots, and trying to gain a better understanding of both the state of safety of coal mining in this country -- and in general ... every year, thousands upon thousands of chinese coal miners die, and we never hear about it -- and the state of this particular mine.

if we don't ask questions and make links, we'll never learn anything and we'll never get anywhere and more people will die. were these particular deaths preventable? we don't know. are potential future mining deaths preventable? you bet your ass they are. so let's start asking questions, and not bash those who do.
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Old 01-05-2006, 07:24 AM   #49
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Originally posted by Dreadsox

Can we take a step back and just breath before making yet another trajedy into a flame war in here?
That would be nice, wouldn't it? But no, some people can't seem to do it. There always seems to be an agenda behind anything and everything. I've seen it myself with so many threads I have posted that I thought would have NO remote possibility of that- yet voila, it happened. It's sad and frankly annoying.

Sorry sula. And if anyone wants to attack me for what I said, so be it I suppose.

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