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Old 12-16-2004, 12:39 PM   #16
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Originally posted by deep
wonders if

"values" is just code for bigots



No "values" is code for "stupid democrats don't have the brains to counteract a campaign built on straw-man issues of little practical impact on people's lives when real-life practical topics like the war in Iraq and a terrible performance on the economy are practically begging to be exploited by someone capable of doing so"

I say this as someone who is Anti-Bush.

Carville and Clinton would have wiped the floor with Bush/Rove.
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Old 12-16-2004, 12:46 PM   #17
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I don't think Bush is the best guy in the world either, but clearly, I knew what his opponent stood for, and it didn't impress me.
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Old 12-16-2004, 12:47 PM   #18
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Originally posted by cardosino



Carville and Clinton would have wiped the floor with Bush/Rove.
Now there's something we can all agree on.
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Old 12-16-2004, 12:54 PM   #19
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Some of it was pretty offensive, yes. Particularly, I think, to those here who already know they plan on being voluntarily childless.

Let me make this clear that I don't think it was your *intent* to offend, and I'm not going to close the thread or anything, but I think the article definitely implies that the voluntarily childless are, as a rule, less concerned about society. Which I have a huge problem with.

I don't know yet whether I'll be a mother someday or not, but as someone who cares for very young children on a regular basis, as an older sister, and as a daughter, I am very concerned about the direction of our society--biological children of my own or not.
I am, too. Everytime I see a baby or very young child, I wonder what kind of life he or she will have when they are older. I want them to live in a decent environment. I want them to have good lives. Just because they're not my own children doesn't mean I don't feel for them, worry about them, all of that jazz. I get a very strong maternal instinct deal every time I see any baby. I would never dream of claiming that you've got to be a woman to care about these children. Never. If you're male your very basic instincts are going to be a bit different, but you're still going to feel the same way in terms of concern.
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Old 12-16-2004, 01:09 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I don't think Bush is the best guy in the world either, but clearly, I knew what his opponent stood for, and it didn't impress me.
You did ? Congratulations, we have a winner !

There was a contest recently somewhere, the goal was to explain what Kerry stood for. Kerry came in 3rd.
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Old 12-16-2004, 01:13 PM   #21
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Neither side in anymore moral or for the family than the other, it's just that the Right tries to sell it that way and the Left doesn't.
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Old 12-16-2004, 02:36 PM   #22
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Neither side in anymore moral or for the family than the other, it's just that the Right tries to sell it that way and the Left doesn't.
You nailed it, supastar. The right has kicked our asses in terms of marketing. Marketing guru Frank Luntz tought these people how to speak, how to write and how to persuade the American public with simple vocabulary changes. Suddenly "global warming" became "climate change." The war in Iraq became the "war on terror." And the word "liberal" became a pejorative. It's all about how you sell your message. And the right did it very very well. The weird thing is that we're supposed to be the creative ones.
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Old 12-16-2004, 03:10 PM   #23
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You nailed it, supastar. The right has kicked our asses in terms of marketing. Marketing guru Frank Luntz tought these people how to speak, how to write and how to persuade the American public with simple vocabulary changes. Suddenly "global warming" became "climate change." The war in Iraq became the "war on terror." And the word "liberal" became a pejorative. It's all about how you sell your message. And the right did it very very well. The weird thing is that we're supposed to be the creative ones.
You're absolutely right. We lefties have our work cut out for us, don't we?
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Old 12-18-2004, 11:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
wonders if

"values" is just code for bigots



I hope that's not all that's on your mind, and certainly not all that's in your mind, either. Mysticism in debates is like baking soda in Mountain Dew. Would you mind explaining this statement?
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Old 12-18-2004, 12:00 PM   #25
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Originally posted by LPU2


You nailed it, supastar. The right has kicked our asses in terms of marketing. Marketing guru Frank Luntz tought these people how to speak, how to write and how to persuade the American public with simple vocabulary changes. Suddenly "global warming" became "climate change." The war in Iraq became the "war on terror." And the word "liberal" became a pejorative. It's all about how you sell your message. And the right did it very very well. The weird thing is that we're supposed to be the creative ones.
We can't forget about the left-wing marketing terms either, such as choice, intolerant, and bigot. Those are old school, that vocabulary needs a makeover.
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Old 12-18-2004, 12:24 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
We can't forget about the left-wing marketing terms either, such as choice, intolerant, and bigot. Those are old school, that vocabulary needs a makeover.
Yes, because they are both insulting and totally inaccurate. I would never claim that 51% of my compatriots are in any way bigoted, intolerant or against reasonable choices. That'd be incredibly arrogant and way off target. Yet that may be the precise impression some of us, anyway, gave. Oops.
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