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Old 10-08-2004, 12:28 AM   #1
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Video of U.S. pilot bombing apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1011.htm

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Old 10-08-2004, 08:27 AM   #2
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if the claims that these were mearly just civilians can be proven, that is one of the must fucked up things i have ever seen.

i understand that there are good and decent people in our military, but there seems like there's a presence of plenty of shit-for-brains people. what is going on over there???
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Old 10-08-2004, 12:32 PM   #3
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Ah, the joy of videotape out of context. You could make a damning case if that is all you know. But the videotape does not show all the facts.

What you can tell from the tape is that this was a coordinated effort. Command and control is utilized, so this is not a rogue attack by someone with an itchy trigger finger.

Informationclearinghouse is playing to our emotions, they do not seek understanding or truth.
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Old 10-08-2004, 04:09 PM   #4
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Re: Video of U.S. pilot bombing apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians

Quote:
Originally posted by Bunbury
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1011.htm

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Do you have any idea of what falluga was like back in April of this year? Civilians were not casually walking around on the street. In addition, US forces were inside the city and the pilot was most likely responding to a call for an airstrike placed by US forces on the ground inside the city that had verified those that were targeted in the video as insurgents.

It is disgusting that people would accuse American troops of an atrocity based on a video that clearly does not show that those being targeted were civilians.

The United States military DOES NOT TARGET CIVILIANS. If it did, everyone in Falluga could have been killed within 72 hours!
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Old 10-08-2004, 04:11 PM   #5
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Interesting, we'll see what investigations will show us.

Wouldn't armed individuals seek shelter from an f-16 overhead? Or is it possible that they couldn't see or hear it? Any experts?
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Old 10-08-2004, 05:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Interesting, we'll see what investigations will show us.

Wouldn't armed individuals seek shelter from an f-16 overhead? Or is it possible that they couldn't see or hear it? Any experts?
Considering that there was an ongoing battle going on both civilians and insurgents would have been seeking shelter if they new there was an aircraft nearby. The aircraft here though could have been more than 15,000 feet away. All bombing missions in the Kosovo war were done at altitudes above 15,000 feet. Then you also have to consider that the aircraft is not directly above the target which would put the actual distance even further away.
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Old 10-09-2004, 07:37 AM   #7
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Maybe there was a wedding on ?
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Old 10-09-2004, 01:23 PM   #8
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Re: Re: Video of U.S. pilot bombing apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians

Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
The United States military DOES NOT TARGET CIVILIANS
Don't be so damn naive.
It' is a war remember???? Information, disinformation, lack of information, hiding information. Propaganda Propaganda Propaganda!!!!
You can't win a war without it. Both sides use and the ones on the side as wel...

Now I'm sure they do not intend to kill the entire people of Iraq. They probably don't even intend to target civilians....but it happens...mistakes happen. You've got quite a stressful situation going on there. It isn't exactly Disneyland.

Now maybe they don't target civilians, could be, but how can you be sure of that???? You can't, because the military lies....and so they should do.
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Old 10-09-2004, 04:08 PM   #9
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Re: Re: Re: Video of U.S. pilot bombing apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians

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Originally posted by Vorsprung


Don't be so damn naive.
It' is a war remember???? Information, disinformation, lack of information, hiding information. Propaganda Propaganda Propaganda!!!!
You can't win a war without it. Both sides use and the ones on the side as wel...

Now I'm sure they do not intend to kill the entire people of Iraq. They probably don't even intend to target civilians....but it happens...mistakes happen. You've got quite a stressful situation going on there. It isn't exactly Disneyland.

Now maybe they don't target civilians, could be, but how can you be sure of that???? You can't, because the military lies....and so they should do.
The Military keeps things secret and classified, but THAT IS NOT LYING. The Military does not target civilians! That is absolute rubbish! There is no military benefit from targeting innocent civilians! Such actions could actually hurt military missions as it has the potential to drive neutral civilians and friendly civilians into the arms of the insurgents.

Do accidents happen? Of Course! But that is totally different than targeting civilians. If it was the military's goal to kill civilians, every Iraqi citizen would have been killed long ago.

Accidents happen, whether its US troops firing at insurgents and accidently hitting civilians, or as happened a few days ago when US soldiers accidently fired at each other from across a river.

There is not another military force in the world currently or for that matter ever in history, that works harder to prevent the loss of innocent civilian lives, than the US military!

Oh and if I may qoute you, "don't be so damn naive",
if you believe the US military does target civilians, prove it! In this case the burden of proof is on you.
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Old 10-09-2004, 04:41 PM   #10
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The US military has certainly targeted civilians in the past. Seems to me that thousands of them knowingly died when we dropped two big fucking atomic bombs on Japan.
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Old 10-09-2004, 04:57 PM   #11
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on the other hand how do we not know that those weren't a group of terrorists getting ready for a training exercise?

the video was shot at night.

and i do not think in this day and age that the us military target civilians for sport as alledged by some here.

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Old 10-09-2004, 05:18 PM   #12
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Saying that they do not target civilians for sport is not the same as saying they do not target civilians at all.

I'm perfectly aware that terrorists can pose as civilians, that mistakes can be made, etc., but I also believe, as Vorsprung does, that it would be terribly naive to think that the military has never or does not now target civilians.

And like I said, we know of at least one great big incident in which civilians were, in fact, targeted.
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Old 10-09-2004, 05:35 PM   #13
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well Pax you know that the USA will never use nukes in Iraq.

and if u listen to the pilot's conversation it's like they know or think they are taking out terrorists in that group of ppl walking.

and if they knew they were civilians (which they probably aren't).. do u think they would release the tape of american pilots taking out innocent human beings all over the internet?

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Old 10-09-2004, 05:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
The US military has certainly targeted civilians in the past. Seems to me that thousands of them knowingly died when we dropped two big fucking atomic bombs on Japan.
The purpose was not to kill civilians, but to convince the Japanese military and dictatorship to end the war. Dropping the bomb on Japan saved millions of Japanese lives from the devestation that would have happened in an invasion or the continued bombing of the country to prepare for that invasion.

One always hears about the civilians killed by the A-bomb, but never about the 20,000 French civilians killed during the D-Day invasion or the millions of other civilians killed in conventional bombing and fighting.
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Old 10-09-2004, 06:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Saying that they do not target civilians for sport is not the same as saying they do not target civilians at all.

I'm perfectly aware that terrorists can pose as civilians, that mistakes can be made, etc., but I also believe, as Vorsprung does, that it would be terribly naive to think that the military has never or does not now target civilians.

And like I said, we know of at least one great big incident in which civilians were, in fact, targeted.
If one is going to be charging the brave men and women of the United States military(including my friends) with crimes, then I believe one had better have solid evidence to back those charges up.

I think it is offensive and incredibly naive to assume that the United States military has a policy of targeting civilians. The assumption is simply false and if one thinks it is not, it is incumbent upon them, out of respect for the brave men and women fighting for freedom in Iraq, to prove their case.
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