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Old 10-09-2004, 09:32 PM   #16
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
The US military has certainly targeted civilians in the past. Seems to me that thousands of them knowingly died when we dropped two big fucking atomic bombs on Japan.
That has been the subject of other threads, but I doubt we can characterize the use of atomic bombs in WWII as "targeting civilians".

We today, of course, expect a substantially higher effort to eliminate or avoid civilian casualties.
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Old 10-09-2004, 10:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


That has been the subject of other threads, but I doubt we can characterize the use of atomic bombs in WWII as "targeting civilians".

We today, of course, expect a substantially higher effort to eliminate or avoid civilian casualties.
So what were we targeting?

Look I agree that for the most part the US doesn't "target" civilians. But individuals have been known to target civilians.

This video(I agree it's out of context so I'm not taking a side) is disturbing though. All he says is I have numerous individuals, do you want me to take them out? Once again I'll wait for investigation to conclude context, but there is no clear indication that they know who these people are. And I'm sorry but no matter what, there is always something disturbing to me personally when someone "rejoices"(ah dude) in the killing of another human even if it is terrorists. But like I said this is personal and why I could never be in the service.
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:42 AM   #18
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So what were we targeting?

Look I agree that for the most part the US doesn't "target" civilians. But individuals have been known to target civilians.

This video(I agree it's out of context so I'm not taking a side) is disturbing though. All he says is I have numerous individuals, do you want me to take them out? .
The title of the thread says they were civilians.
That is suggestive.

If they were known terrorists its's normal for one pilot to say to the other 'do u want me take thake them out'? and 'oh dude' after a target is hit.

Now if he were to start hummimg the Star Spangled Banner after hitting an enemy you may have an issue.


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Old 10-10-2004, 08:51 AM   #19
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Saying that there is no policy of targeting civilians is not the same as saying no civilians are ever targeted.

I am not trying to impugn the service or character of individuals in the Armed Forces. Certainly the vast majority of those individuals are honorable people who wish to do the right things. But the dropping of the atomic bomb was such a massive use of deadly, destructive force that the people who made the decision knew that thousands of civilians would die or be terribly disfigured. Nothing was done to avoid that. We cannot shrug off the blame for those awful deaths.

And I believe that it is the few members of the Armed Forces who actually commit the atrocities, not the people who have the audacity to point them out and demand they be held accountable, who bring dishonor to the rest of the men and women in the Armed Forces. That's like saying that Woodward and Bernstein were responsible for Watergate.
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:09 AM   #20
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If one believes someone is guilty of atrocities then it is incumbent upon them to prove their case. I think it is wrong to go around saying things about others with no proof to back up their case.


The dropping of the Atomic Bomb was the right course of action, and far more people were killed in coventional bombing of Japanese cities than were killed by the Atomic Bomb.

President Truman not only had to think about the lives that would be killed by the Atomic Bomb, he had to think about the number of people who would die, Japanese and American, if the Bomb was not used. The cost of not using the Atomic Bomb would be over a 100 times greater than its actual use. How would Truman be able to shrug of the deaths of tens of millions of Japanese citizens in a war that would go on for a year or two more, knowing that he had not used his best chance of ending the war early?
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


That has been the subject of other threads, but I doubt we can characterize the use of atomic bombs in WWII as "targeting civilians".


People can sanitize history all they want.

Truman wanted to kill the "Jap bastards"

He did not mince words.
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:20 PM   #22
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Originally posted by diamond



If they were known terrorists its's normal for one pilot to say to the other 'do u want me take thake them out'? and 'oh dude' after a target is hit.

db9
Yes if they were known terrorists. I hope they were. But like I said earlier the most disturbing part of the video is that he only says "I have numerous individuals" not I have the target. Hopefully the investigation will show us what really happened.
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The dropping of the Atomic Bomb was the right course of action, and far more people were killed in coventional bombing of Japanese cities than were killed by the Atomic Bomb.

You've been watching too many of the debates, for you completely avoided the issue. The issue was not if it was right or wrong, the issue was about targeting civilians. If you don't think dropping the bomb was not a targeting of civilians than you're the one being quite naive.
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Old 10-10-2004, 01:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes if they were known terrorists. I hope they were. But like I said earlier the most disturbing part of the video is that he only says "I have numerous individuals" not I have the target. Hopefully the investigation will show us what really happened.
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I saw this video 6 months ago.
It's old news.

Believe me if there was anything to this fair-minded journalists such as

Dan Rather
Tom Brokaw:
and
Petey Jennings:
would have been off to the races 6 months ago.

Don't hold your breath for an investigation.

Peace,
diamond
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:19 PM   #25
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The question I have is, how many people years later were killed by the conventional bombs.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:57 PM   #26
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