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Old 05-17-2005, 03:12 AM   #16
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Originally posted by Mofo



This is quite true actually, here in Mexico we use the word "black" quite easily without meaning any real harm or without any racist tone, but Fox should've known better, his mouth usually get's the best of him, but hey it's only one more year with him
This kind of attitude is infuriating. Something doesn't stop being racist simply because it's said without malice. Racism is racism, 'lighthearted' or not.

-Miggy
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Old 05-17-2005, 03:53 AM   #17
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Wait so using the world black is now racist, ridiculous.
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:35 AM   #18
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Wait so using the world black is now racist, ridiculous.
I have no problem with that if the word "white" is considered equally racist !!!
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:36 AM   #19
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and also blue and yellow...

there will be a time...

when blue eyed girl and green eyed boy ...all would be racist phrases
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miggy D


This kind of attitude is infuriating. Something doesn't stop being racist simply because it's said without malice. Racism is racism, 'lighthearted' or not.

-Miggy
I'm not saying I agree with it, it's just a fact at least here in Mexico
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:52 AM   #21
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MEXICO CITY (AP) - President Vicente Fox reversed course Monday and apologized for saying that Mexicans in the United States do the work that blacks won't.

Despite growing criticism that included a stern U.S. response, Fox had repeatedly refused to back away from the comments he made Friday, saying his remark had been misinterpreted.

But in telephone conversations with the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton, the president said he "regretted" the statement.

"The president regretted any hurt feelings his statements may have caused," the Foreign Relations Department said in a press statement. "He expressed the great respect he and his administration has for the African-American community in the United States."

Jackson told Fox that he was sure the president had no racist intent, and suggested the two meet to discuss joint strategies between blacks and immigrant groups in the United States, Aguilar said.

Fox agreed to set up a visit to Mexico by Jackson, Sharpton and a group of American black leaders.

Despite Fox's latest comment, many Mexicans - stung by a new U.S. crackdown on illegal immigrants - didn't see the remark as offensive. Blackface comedy is still considered funny here and many people hand out nicknames based on skin color.

"The president was just telling the truth," said Celedonio Gonzalez, a 35-year-old carpenter who worked illegally in Dallas for six months in 2001. "Mexicans go to the United States because they have to. Blacks want to earn better wages, and the Mexican - because he is illegal - takes what they pay him."

Earlier Fox's spokesman, Ruben Aguilar, said Fox's comments were in defense of Mexican migrants as they come under attack by new U.S. immigration measures that include a wall along the Mexico-California border, and were not meant to offend anybody.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City had raised the issue with the Mexican government. "That's a very insensitive and inappropriate way to phrase this and we would hope that (the Mexicans) would clarify the remarks," Boucher said.

Lisa Catanzarite, a sociologist at Washington State University, disputed Fox's assertion. She said there is intense competition for lucrative working class jobs like construction and that employers usually prefer to hire immigrants who don't know their rights.

"What Vicente Fox called a willingness to work ... translates into extreme exploitability," she said.

Fox made the comment Friday during a public appearance in Puerto Vallarta, saying: "There's no doubt that Mexican men and women - full of dignity, willpower and a capacity for work - are doing the work that not even blacks want to do in the United States."

The issue reflected Fox's growing frustration with U.S. immigration policy and deteriorating relations between the two nations.

The Mexican government was expected to send a diplomatic letter to the United States on Monday protesting recent measures that include requiring states to verify that people who apply for a driver's license are in the country legally, making it harder for migrants to gain amnesty, and overriding environmental laws to build a barrier along the California border with Mexico.

The measures have been widely criticized in Mexico, where residents increasingly see the United States as adopting anti-migrant policies.

Even Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera, the archbishop of Mexico City, criticized the U.S. policy as ridiculous and defended Fox's comments, saying: "The declaration had nothing to do with racism. It is a reality in the United States that anyone can prove."

Gilberto Rincon, president of the National Council to Prevent Discrimination, said the statement was "unfortunate." But, speaking after releasing a report on racism in Mexico, he said it reflected outdated language more than a racist attitude.

Fox has championed the rights of minorities and the disabled and has led a successful campaign to amend the constitution to make discrimination a crime.

While Mexico has a few, isolated black communities, the population is dominated by descendants of the country's Spanish colonizers and its native Indians. Comments that would generally be considered openly racist in the United States generate little attention here.

One afternoon television program regularly features a comedian in blackface chasing actresses in skimpy outfits, while an advertisement for a small, chocolate pastry called the "negrito" - the little black man - shows a white boy sprouting an afro as he eats the sweet. Many people hand out nicknames based on skin color.

Victor Hugo Flores, a 30-year-old bond salesman, cringed when asked what he thought of Fox's comment, but said it isn't too different from popular sayings celebrating what Mexicans see as a strong work ethic among blacks.

"It was bad, but it really isn't racist," he said. "Maybe the president shouldn't have said it. But here we say things like, 'He works like a black person,' and it's normal."
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:35 AM   #22
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Fox doesn't sound like a racist guy, and what's acceptable in Mexico isn't necessarily what's acceptable in the U.S. Hell, I don't know.
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Fox doesn't sound like a racist guy, and what's acceptable in Mexico isn't necessarily what's acceptable in the U.S. Hell, I don't know.

this is simply the case, I know it may be quite hard for many north-americans to understand because of all the issues and history they have, but it's just not like that in Mexico so I'm sorry if some of you find it quite infuriating
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:14 AM   #24
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Fox had repeatedly refused to back away from the comments he made Friday, saying his remark had been misinterpreted.

But in telephone conversations with the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton, the president said he "regretted" the statement.
Thus goes the racial politics dance. "No retraction," "regret statement," "denounce but no call for apology". At some point we will be able to script these exchanges before they take place.
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:37 PM   #25
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I don't blame Mexicans for being insulted or dismayed by US immigration policy. I don't blame anybody anywhere in the world for being insulted by US immigration policy.

I think that the way America is treating Mexican immigrants, legal or otherwise (why don't you learn to speak some english?, coming up here an' takin' owr jooobs, etc.), is another one of those things that our grandchildren will get to be ashamed of when they learn about it in school. Remember "No Irish Need Apply"?

That said, unfortunately for him, President Fox just experienced that most unfortunate political malady that many politicians occasionally come down with; Foot-in-Mouth Syndrome.... I hope that he suffers no long term affects (ie., suddenly find Georgy Jr.'s Mexican Storm Joint International Task Force rolling their tanks through his azalea bushes, and no, I wouldn't put it past that dippy Texan we elected), because it's nice to find that there is at least one person somewhere on the North American continent who does not automatically kiss American ass...
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:43 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
The US needs to liberate Mexico of its WMDs.
Is there oil in Mexico ?
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:54 PM   #27
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actually there is, so I'm eagerly waiting for our liberation
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Old 05-18-2005, 07:05 AM   #28
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It appears Jesse Jackson is now on his way to Mexico to fix this!
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Old 05-18-2005, 07:06 AM   #29
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Is there anything Jesse Jackson can't fix?

Maybe he can fix Bono's back
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Old 05-18-2005, 02:19 PM   #30
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MEXICO CITY - President
Vicente Fox tried to smooth relations with the U.S. black community Wednesday after saying Mexican immigrants take jobs that "not even" blacks want, promising to work with the
Rev. Jesse Jackson to improve labor rights for minorities in the United States.

The meeting between Fox and Jackson at the presidential residence was a sharp contrast from a few days ago, when Jackson called on the Mexican president to issue a public apology. Some 25 million people of Mexican heritage live in the United States.

Fox met with Jackson for more than an hour, but didn't participate in a news conference following the talks because he had to leave for a trip to northern Mexico. Fox has made no public reference to his comment Friday, instead issuing often inconsistent statements through his aides.

Jackson told reporters Fox was scheduled to appear on the U.S. civil rights leader's radio program Sunday. Fox was also invited to several U.S. labor forums, although it wasn't clear if he planned to attend.

Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez, who appeared at the news conference on behalf of Fox, said the meeting was an opportunity for Mexico to pursue better treatment for Mexican and other Latino migrants in the United States.

"This relationship, which today became closer for the Mexican government, is one more avenue, one more process of mutual support in the search for a common objective that is integrated, complete migratory reform," Derbez said.

Jackson said Fox's comment Friday was "at best, insensitive," but that the Mexican president had expressed regret for any offense he had caused.

"He now realizes the harmful effects of it," Jackson said. "He seeks to correct it by reaching out."

Jackson said the statement, which angered the U.S. black community, was a chance for minority groups in the United States to begin working together to fight for better treatment and wages.

"It was offensive and inaccurate, but it was a diversion from the bigger struggle of workers rights," Jackson said.

He said Mexicans and blacks in the United States were the victims of U.S. policies that pit illegal workers against disenfranchised minority groups.

"The Mexican-Americans must not be pawns in that scheme, and African Americans must not be scapegoats in that scheme," he said. "We must work together, fighting for the right to vote, and for health care and wages."

The controversy came as Mexico fumed over new U.S. immigration policies, including tightened requirements for driver's licenses and the extension of a wall along the California-Mexico border.

The U.S. government initially criticized Fox's statement, with State Department spokesman Richard Boucher saying Monday it was "very insensitive and inappropriate."

The next day, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Fox "made a public statement regretting his comments, and I think he's addressed the matter."

Jackson criticized
President Bush and Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice for not personally responding to Fox's comment.

"I would expect some official expression from our government," he said.

There was still confusion Wednesday on whether Fox had formally apologized for his remarks.

Fox told Jackson and civil rights leader
Al Sharpton on Monday that he was sorry for "any hurt feelings caused by my statements," according to Mexico's Foreign Relations Department.

Late Tuesday, Assistant Foreign Secretary Patricia Olamendi echoed that sentiment, saying: "If anyone felt offended by the statement, I offer apologies on behalf of my government."

But early Wednesday, Fox spokesman Ruben Aguilar said Olamendi was speaking on behalf of herself — not the government. Aguilar has insisted Fox's comments were misinterpreted.
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