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Old 10-05-2004, 08:44 PM   #121
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I don't think Cheney won at all. I think he was evasive and snide. He looked and acted as if he couldn't believe people had the audacity to ask HIM questions.
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:45 PM   #122
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oooh wow Chris Matthews flogging a Republican MSNBC contributor for defending Cheney's denial of saying Hussein-Al Qaeda connection
.............very cool
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:45 PM   #123
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Originally posted by pub crawler
Wow, sharky, you're actually cheering me up. (You should fucking be running the Kerry/Edwards Campaign).
Cheney is slimy and has slimeballs working for him. It's not just Cheney -- its soooo Rove. And work for the K/E campaign? I deal with enough political infighting in my office now. Although....I do hate my job and need a new one.....

Chris Matthews is making mince meat of Republican Ben Ginsberg on MSNBC. The GOP needs to fire Ben. You GOPers are lucky he's not the VP nominee.
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:48 PM   #124
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yeah I saw that, Ben Ginsberg, poor bastard

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Old 10-05-2004, 08:53 PM   #125
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What are you talking about? Iraq WAS NOT part of the coalition. We ATTACKED THEM. We can't attack a country that is part a coalition. If Iraq were an ally, we would never have gone into the damn country with tanks. If you want to include the "Iraqi military" that's fine but then also include all the civilians we have killed. There is no Iraqi military until the Iraqi forces are controlled by Iraq. They are being helped by the U.S. by alot.

The sacrifices of our allies is great but only 10% of allied deaths were not U.S. soldiers. 10%! The Poles have said they are pulling out. And the Ukraine? How many soldiers have they brought to the cause? 100? 1,000? No way.
..... it is October 2004 and Iraq has been apart of the coalition for over a year now! My friends work with the Iraqi military EVERY DAY! The United States military and the Iraqi military DO NOT MURDER CIVILIANS! That is done by the terrorist the coalition is fighting there.

There is an Iraqi Government, that has a seat at the United Nations. The Iraqi Government does control the Iraqi Military! There are over 100,000 Iraqi Troops and Police as of October 2004. They are doing an amazing job in helping to defeat the terrorist who are killing their childern, spouses, friends, parents and other family members.

I believe it is WRONG to ignore the sacrifice that Iraqi troops are making every day in large numbers along side are soldiers. The Majority of the operation recently conducted in Summera to clear out insurgents was conducted by the IRAQI military! Over 100 insurgents were killed and many more were captured!

I've got news for John Kerry and John Edwards. The French and Germans are never going to participate militaryly on the ground in Iraq nor would their participation secure victory! It is the Iraqi military that is currently growing in size and capability that will allow the United States to withdraw its forces and who will ultimately keep Iraqi democracy and its people secure and safe over the long run. Kerry/Edwards need to wake up and realize what is going on on the ground in Iraq because all they are doing is creating things that are simply false in their attempts to get elected.

Oh and by the Way, over 3,000 UKrainians have served in Iraq and the current number there is 1,576! Ukrainians provided security for my best friends Helicopter Squadran on his first tour of duty in Iraq in 2003!

I think that it is wrong to attack the contributions of coalition countries and we all need to start recognizing the massive contribution that the Iraqi military is making every day! Right now as we speak, there are young Iraqi men lined up to join the military in Iraq, despite the fact that recruiting centers in Iraq are the #1 target of terrorist bombings!
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:54 PM   #126
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I'd love to see Ben Stein, speaking of Bens, doing spin control post-debate.

Seriously!

And my $0.02 ($0.0137 Canadian)...

I thought Edwards looked all right. Like Screaming Flower, I was expecting more cool, more smiles. He did okay, which I think is honestly all you can expect against Cheney.

Cheney really shocked me on the gay marriage issue. I do feel very badly for him when it's brought up, knowing that he's really caught between a rock and a hard place. I thought he did extremely well with staying composed and dignified, and Edwards was very conciliatory towards him on that.

Did anyone catch at the end where Edwards thanked Cheney but not the other way around?

Nicer manners...just one more thing we love about JE.
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:55 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

The United States military and the Iraqi military DO NOT MURDER CIVILIANS!
Ever?

Not even once?

Not ever?
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:57 PM   #128
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I would say Edwards won this debate, simply because he was always talking TO us, while Cheany seems to like talking AT us, if that makes any sense.

As for the subject matter, it's nothing new. You know, it's like you can ram it in as many times as you like 'Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, Saddam has no links to Al Queda, etc etc etc', and Cheany and Bush will just be totally oblivious to it. It's one of their biggest weaknesses, they absolutely refuse to even think about admitting they've made any mistakes.

And please, don't sit here and try to tell me that Bono is in favor of Iraq or that he shares right-wing points of views. Please. Bono kisses ass with the right because he needs to be in their good graces for Africa-related reasons, because THEY are in power. That's it. But if Bono is just alone in his home, talking to friends about politics, he's all left. Anyone here that's followed this band through the years, I don't think would even suggest that Bono all of a sudden became a right-winger. He doesn't support Iraq, he DID support Afghanistan. I didn't have too much of a problem with Afghanistan either, Osama and Al Queda were there, and THEY were responsible for 9/11. We had a chance to get Osama even, and it is my contention, along with many others, that Bush blew it. Then Iraq happened, and it was completely niether here nor there. The Iraqi invasion is helping Al Queda, not hurting it. We are actually helping the people that planned and carried out 9/11. Imagine that.

Anyway, I'm off-topic. I think Edwards won. He's just much more approachable. Cheany can really be slimy sometimes.
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:59 PM   #129
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Originally posted by DaveC


Hurrah for rhetoric!!

Oh, and could you please show me a quote where Bono supports the war?
In the year end 2001 issue of HOT PRESS, Bono clearly says that he supports the war in Afganistan! He also clearly states for anyone that did not know already that he is NOT a pacifist. I picked up this issue while I was in Dublin on Holiday.
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:01 PM   #130
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Of course. How could I be so naive? The Democrats are obviously evil and would stoop to that kind of a low.

Those are online polls that anyone can take. Come on now, pay attention at least.
If you do some research, you will realize that any online poll is NOT scientific and can be easily manipulated!
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:02 PM   #131
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Let's be clear: Chris Matthews exposed Ben Ginsberg, Dick Cheney, and the rest of the GOP as LIARS on the alleged connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda by showing videotape where Cheney contradicted himself between what he said last year on Meet the Press and here on this VP debate. You can't have it both ways and use a connection to start a war and then deny it next year when you are proven dead WRONG.

The truth HURTS. And don't try changing the subject in ANY rebuttals to this post. They lied. End of story.

AJ
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:03 PM   #132
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nice

But we're all still friends, no?

Zing?

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Old 10-05-2004, 09:05 PM   #133
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Congressional auditors have said that the contracts received by Halliburton met the legal guidelines put forth in giving a contract without competition--because Halliburton was the only company with the capability to perform some of the work.

Edwards also said that "They sent 40,000 American troops into Iraq without the body armor they needed." General Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs disagrees saying that "every soldier and Marine on the ground had body armor."

Edwards said that we have spent 200 billion on Iraq when it is clear as the Vice President pointed out that 120 billion is the number and the rest of the money Edwards is referring to is for Afghanistan and the global war on terror.

Cheney did say that Iraq supported terrorism:
"Concern about Iraq specifically focused on the fact that Saddam Hussein had been, for years, listed on the state sponsor of terror, that they he had established relationships with Abu Nidal, who operated out of Baghdad; he paid $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers; and he had an established relationship with Al Qaida."
He also stated that "The report also points out that at one point some of Zarqawi's people were arrested. Saddam personally intervened to have them released, supposedly at the request of Zarqawi"
Not disputed opinions but facts.

Edwards did not respond to the question of would Saddam Hussein would still be in power had he and Mr. Kerry been in office.

Edwards dodged the "Global Test" question by saying "Well, let me say, first, he said in the same segment — I don't remember precisely where it was connected with what you just read — but he said, point blank, "We will never give anyone a veto over the security of the United States of America."

Ms. Ifill said that "French and German officials have both said they have no intention even if John Kerry is elected of sending any troops into Iraq for any peacekeeping effort. Does that make your effort or your plan to internationalize this effort seem kind of naive?" Edwards responded by dodging this question as well. "Well, let's start with what we know. What we know is that the president and the vice president have not done the work to build the coalition that we need — dramatically different than the first Gulf War. We know that they haven't done it, and we know they can't do it."

Mr. Edwards did not explain why he missed what Mr. Cheney called " a lot of key votes: on tax policy, on energy, on Medicare reform." Mr. Cheney also said that he had " one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate." Along with the classic line: "Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:06 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Can we say it together

RIGTH WAR
RIGHT PLACE
RIGHT TIME
I know John Kerry does not have a clue about where he stands on Iraq and was against the use of military force to remove Saddam's military from Kuwait. The Majority of the planets energy supplies lies in this area, and Kerry does not have a clue about how he would handle a dictator that had invaded and attacked four different countries, was in violation of 17 UN resolutions, had murdered 1.7 million people and failed to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD.

John Kerry supported a war that he said was the wrong war, at the wrong place at the wrong time!
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:06 PM   #135
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Whew. If the FOX poll shows Edwards won, then the Bush team should be reallly concerned.
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