Vice Presidential Debate

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I didn't think it was that much. The second half, yes, but the first half of the debate was essentially a draw, IMO.
 
Cheney rocked Edwards so bad in this debate. He made Edwards look like a school boy. I love Bush but I wish he could work Kerry over like Cheney did to Edwards.

And it's about time they point out the horrible voting record in the Senate for Kerry and Edwards...it's a shame the media is giving these guys a free pass on that when there is so much at stake.
 
cheney won the debate?

how?

by refusing to answer questions?

gimmee a fucking break; he is hanging the threat of terrorism over our heads just to get people to live in fear and have them be re-elected.

how about a little thing called haliburton?

excuse me while I go to the bathroom and throw up.

amazing that I'm on a U2 fan board and having this discussion.
 
This is a very sound victory for Cheney as I predicted. No question about that. Edwards was simply overmatched. The only problem is--I'm betting not alot of people watched it. The President needs a similar result in the next two debates in order to gain back some of the lead he lost as a result of his poor performance in the first debate.
 
CNN is saying that their insta-polling "feelings tracker" thingy showed that Edwards won among the group of 24 undecideds that they had there.
 
Edwards held his own against Cheney, which isn't good considering it was a Vice President against a nominee. And Cheney didn't respond to the Halliburton claims for obvious reasons. He never responded to claims that there was no connection between al Qaeda and Iraq. In fact, he said he never made that connection before, which is a TOTAL LIE! And he never answered Edwards's claims that he was lying. All he could do was play catch up with the domestic issues. Cheney may have won the debate but barely. He didn't help the campaign. Didn't hurt it either.

Edwards is ahead in CNN and MSNBC's polls. Anyone seeing any others?
 
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Current CNN poll results:

Who do you think won the vice presidential debate?

Dick Cheney 16% 16610 votes

John Edwards 79% 80445 votes

Evenly matched 4% 4345 votes
Total: 101400 votes

And the MSNBC poll:

VP Dick Cheney 29%
Sen. John Edwards 71%

For the record, I voted "Evenly matched" in the CNN poll and for Cheney (cause even though I support Kerry, Cheney did edge Edwards, IMO) in the MSNBC poll.
 
And Cheney NEVER responded to any of these issues from Edwards. NEVER.

"He voted against Head Start.
"He voted against banning plastic weapons that can pass through medical detectors.
"He voted against 'Meals on Wheels' for Seniors.
"He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King.
"He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela."
 
And what about this from 9/13/04?

On Thursday in Cincinnati, Ohio, Cheney described Saddam as a "man who provided safe harbor and sanctuary to terrorists for years" and who "provided safe harbor and sanctuary as well for al Qaeda."
In Wisconsin on Friday, he said the "al Qaeda organization had a relationship with the Iraqis."
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/12/kerry.powell.iraq/

Or today?
A CIA report has found no conclusive evidence that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein harbored Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, which the Bush administration asserted before the invasion of Iraq.
"There's no conclusive evidence the Saddam Hussein regime had harbored Zarqawi," a U.S. official said on Tuesday about the CIA findings.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041006/ts_nm/iraq_usa_zarqawi_dc

Cheney blatantly lied. He may have had a good night but he blatantly lied.
 
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JOFO said:
cheney won the debate?

how?

by refusing to answer questions?

gimmee a fucking break; he is hanging the threat of terrorism over our heads just to get people to live in fear and have them be re-elected.

how about a little thing called haliburton?

excuse me while I go to the bathroom and throw up.

amazing that I'm on a U2 fan board and having this discussion.
Click to expand...

I'd like to inform you that there many U2 fans who support BUSH! Just in this forum there are over 50 U2 fans that will be voting for him! One of the biggest U2 fans I know is currently flying combat missions in Iraq with the Marines on his second tour of duty there. He is a Republican and supports Bush!

Even BONO supports Bush on the war in Afghanistan!

So lets make some things clear. U2 are not pacifist, and a large number of their fans are Republicans and do support BUSH.

The whole Haliburton thing is an absurd diversion and classic mud slinging.

Oh and its about time that John Edwards and John Kerry start recognizing the new Iraqi Military and Government for their sacrifices in establishing a free and prosperous Iraq! They have completely ignored their sacrifices as well as the sacrifices of Polish, Ukrainian and other coalition forces in Iraq. There is a coalition in Iraq and the new Iraqi military and police force which numbers 100,000 is apart of it! Unfortunately, the Kerry/Edwards team either doesn't know this or does not care to recognize it!
 
I believe the debate was a draw. I believe both came out with great and strong points and statements but do not see this as a clear win for Cheney at all.
 
sharky said:
And Cheney NEVER responded to any of these issues from Edwards. NEVER.

"He voted against Head Start.
"He voted against banning plastic weapons that can pass through medical detectors.
"He voted against 'Meals on Wheels' for Seniors.
"He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King.
"He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela."
Click to expand...

i agree this was definitely his low point (or at least this moment or his non-response to the iraq/al qaeda connection). he looked bad. and it was basically a given that he would avoid halliburton. edwards could have done more with the halliburton issue, imo. i still think edwards looked weak and inexperienced. i expected more from him and i'm disappointed.
 
STING2 said:
Oh and its about time that John Edwards and John Kerry start recognizing the new Iraqi Military and Government for their sacrifices in establishing a free and prosperous Iraq! They have completely ignored their sacrifices as well as the sacrifices of Polish, Ukrainian and other coalition forces in Iraq. There is a coalition in Iraq and the new Iraqi military and police force which numbers 100,000 is apart of it! Unfortunately, the Kerry/Edwards team either doesn't know this or does not care to recognize it!
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Iraq WAS NOT part of the coalition. We ATTACKED THEM. We can't attack a country that is part a coalition. If Iraq were an ally, we would never have gone into the damn country with tanks. If you want to include the "Iraqi military" that's fine but then also include all the civilians we have killed. There is no Iraqi military until the Iraqi forces are controlled by Iraq. They are being helped by the U.S. by alot.

The sacrifices of our allies is great but only 10% of allied deaths were not U.S. soldiers. 10%! The Poles have said they are pulling out. And the Ukraine? How many soldiers have they brought to the cause? 100? 1,000? No way.
 
sharky said:
Edwards held his own against Cheney, which isn't good considering it was a Vice President against a nominee. And Cheney didn't respond to the Halliburton claims for obvious reasons. He never responded to claims that there was no connection between al Qaeda and Iraq. In fact, he said he never made that connection before, which is a TOTAL LIE! And he never answered Edwards's claims that he was lying. All he could do was play catch up with the domestic issues. Cheney may have won the debate but barely. He didn't help the campaign. Didn't hurt it either.

Edwards is ahead in CNN and MSNBC's polls. Anyone seeing any others?
Click to expand...

Unscientific polls that Democrats have staffed people to vote on in order to give the appearence of victory.

Dick Cheney never said that Saddam was responsible for 9/11! Who ever claims that is simply wrong!

Chris Matthews who is a liberal admits that Dick Cheney Slaughtered Edwards in these debates.
 
STING2 said:


I'd like to inform you that there many U2 fans who support BUSH! Just in this forum there are over 50 U2 fans that will be voting for him! One of the biggest U2 fans I know is currently flying combat missions in Iraq with the Marines on his second tour of duty there. He is a Republican and supports Bush!

Even BONO supports Bush on the war in Afghanistan!

So lets make some things clear. U2 are not pacifist, and a large number of their fans are Republicans and do support BUSH.

The whole Haliburton thing is an absurd diversion and classic mud slinging.

Oh and its about time that John Edwards and John Kerry start recognizing the new Iraqi Military and Government for their sacrifices in establishing a free and prosperous Iraq! They have completely ignored their sacrifices as well as the sacrifices of Polish, Ukrainian and other coalition forces in Iraq. There is a coalition in Iraq and the new Iraqi military and police force which numbers 100,000 is apart of it! Unfortunately, the Kerry/Edwards team either doesn't know this or does not care to recognize it!
Click to expand...

Hurrah for rhetoric!! :rolleyes:

Oh, and could you please show me a quote where Bono supports the war?
 
This thread was a funny read

all you bushies are still stinging from the other night.

it looked even to me

slight edge to edwards for a being more approchable, warm, regular guy

this is what is often said about W.

huge points for edwands saying they would work to prevent fribelous lawsuits,
disarmed Cheney there

cheney
FOR Mandela in Jail
against MLK
i am seeing a pattern here




btw,

what was this crap that Cheney admitted in 2000 he wanted sanctions off Iran so American businesses (HALIBUTON) could make money:huh:


the guy is just a profiteer
 
STING2 said:


Unscientific polls that Democrats have staffed people to vote on in order to give the appearence of victory.
Click to expand...

Of course. How could I be so naive? The Democrats are obviously evil and would stoop to that kind of a low. :tsk:

Those are online polls that anyone can take. Come on now, pay attention at least.
 
some people are way too predictable.

deep said:
all you bushies are still stinging from the other night.
Click to expand...

spare me. :rolleyes:

i'm no bushie. i can't stand the man. excuse me if i don't fall in line. i know a wipeout when i see one and this was a wipeout.
 
DaveC said:


Of course. How could I be so naive? The Democrats are obviously evil and would stoop to that kind of a low. :tsk:

Those are online polls that anyone can take. Come on now, pay attention at least.
Click to expand...

Yes, anyone can vote in these polls, but it is true about the Democrats getting people to vote in these online polls to give an appearance of victory. Why? Because that will help rally Kerry supporters.

The truth is that before the debates, the Democratic National Committee sent out newsletters to registered democrats with web addresses to vote in online polls and phone numbers of news organizations/talk radio shows to call and claim that their guy won--this gives the appearance of victory and they think it will give Kerry/Edwards momentum. This was in the news just a few days ago.
 
DaveC said:


Hurrah for rhetoric!! :rolleyes:

Oh, and could you please show me a quote where Bono supports the war?
Click to expand...

It's not often I'll give a point to Sting, but while Bono didn't openly say he actually supported it, he did say something to the effect of 'understanding it' and that's where Stings "I'm not a pacifist" quotes come from. I *think* the meaning of the full quote was along the lines of, he looks at himself and realises that he's not perfect, if he's attacked he'll fight back, therefore he can't describe himself as a pacifist, so therefore he understands the US' need to strike back. I think the interviewer used the word 'pacifist' in the question, hence why Bono took that angle. I think what Bono did was actually avoid giving a yes/no answer (and it was smart for him to do that), but I guess it's safe to say that Afghanistan was ok with him. Iraq however, he was/is dead against.
 
Wow, sharky, you're actually cheering me up. ;) (You should fucking be running the Kerry/Edwards Campaign).

Frankly, and I'll qualify my remarks by stating that I only caught a few minutes of tonight's debate on the car radio and then the last 10 minutes on tv, I think Cheney played it just as I expected -- he was cool, calm and collected. Cheney was much more composed than Edwards and in that sense he won the debate, though I really don't know what degree of significance that kind of win -- Cheney's more effective communication -- will carry.

The bottom line for me is this: Kerry and Edwards are both too soft on the opposition and neither of them quite get it. They could be and should be skewering Bush and Cheney....... but they just don't get it. Cheney is a ruthless, slimey fuck and you've got to deal with him accordingly. You've got to go for the jugular. It really shouldn't be hard to nail these clowns. Unfortunately, this is something Kerry and Edwards probably won't figure out until it's too late.
 
pub crawler said:

The bottom line for me is this: Kerry and Edwards are both too soft on the opposition and neither of them quite get it. They could be and should be skewering Bush and Cheney....... but they just don't get it. Cheney is a ruthless, slimey fuck and you've got to deal with him accordingly. You've got to go for the jugular. It really shouldn't be hard to nail these clowns. Unfortunately, this is something Kerry and Edwards probably won't figure out until it's too late.
Click to expand...

exactly! edwards missed so many opportunities. he wants to be seen a nice guy, and that's fine, but not when your head to head with dick cheney. the man obviously has no qualms about sticking it to his opponent, and edwards just got railroaded because of it. it kind of pisses me off.
 
My impartial take.......

Edwards faced the pit bull of the administration. Edwards would win this by holding his own, demonstrating that he is indeed of the same stature as the vice-president.

NOBODY decides elections based on the Vice-Presidential Debate.

It was by far a better debate on both sides.

Edwards thank you thank you for mentioning AIDS Africa and the Sudan and Doubling the money.

God I wish you had said that people were dying in Africa at the rate of two 9/11's a day. But that is the bleeding heart in me.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Edwards was clearly better prepared in the rebuttal area in my opinion.

Cheney was on message, on his game, and if the Gallup poll from the weekend is to be believed, sending the right message.


Debates, very rarely elect a president, especially VP debates.
 
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