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Old 08-30-2005, 01:34 PM   #46
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Originally posted by melon


As I see it, it's one evidence of many that the Vatican is the last group that should be able to claim that they represent God.

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No group, no individual should be accepted if they claim to represent God. Any god.

If a god (or gods) exists, it would not be represented by mere humans.
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:39 PM   #47
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No group, no individual should be accepted if they claim to represent God. Any god.

If a god (or gods) exists, it would not be represented by mere humans.


agreed.

i've always found the presumption that God has human characteristics rather self-centered.

i mean, it's an awfully big universe.
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Old 08-30-2005, 03:58 PM   #48
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^ it goes along with "sodomy is an abomination!"

but two chicks is pretty hot ...
Ah, yeah, that too .

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Old 11-22-2005, 04:09 PM   #49
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Vatican: Active gays unwelcome in priesthood

Tuesday, November 22, 2005

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- The Vatican says sexually active homosexuals and those who support "gay culture" are unwelcome in the priesthood unless the candidate has overcome homosexual tendencies for at least three years, according to a church document posted on the Internet by an Italian Catholic news agency.

The long-awaited document is scheduled to be released by the Vatican next Tuesday. A church official who has read the document confirmed the authenticity of the Internet posting by the Adista news agency.

The document said that "the Church, while deeply respecting the people in question, cannot admit to the seminary and the sacred orders those who practice homosexuality, present deeply rooted homosexual tendencies or support so-called gay culture."

"Those people find themselves, in fact, in a situation that presents a grave obstacle to a correct relationship with men and women. One cannot ignore the negative consequences that can stem from the ordination of people with deeply rooted homosexual tendencies," it said.

"If instead it is a case of homosexual tendencies that are merely the expression of a transitory problem, for example as in the case of an unfinished adolescence, they must however have been clearly overcome for at least three years before ordination as a deacon."

Vatican prohibitions on active homosexuals becoming priests are not new.

A key 1961 Vatican document on selecting candidates for the priesthood made clear homosexuals should be barred.

However, the sex abuse scandal among priests in the United States and elsewhere has led some to call for new restrictions.

Estimates of the number of gays in U.S. seminaries and the priesthood range from 25 percent to 50 percent, according to a review of research by the Rev. Donald Cozzens, a former seminary rector and author of "The Changing Face of the Priesthood."

The Vatican press office announced in November 2002, at the height of the clergy sex scandal in the United States, that the Congregation for Catholic Education was drawing up guidelines for accepting candidates for the priesthood that would address the question of whether gays should be barred. However, the document reportedly had been in the works well before then.

The document, called an "Instruction," is only five pages long, including footnotes. It was signed by the prefect and secretary of the congregation on November 4, and says it was approved by Pope Benedict XVI on August 31.

The sex abuse scandals have forced an unprecedented introspection into the clergy and how to train future priests.

In September, Vatican-directed inspectors started visiting all 229 American seminaries. Part of their mission has been to seek any "evidence of homosexuality" at a time when some Catholics have put forward the highly contested premise that gay priests were more likely to be responsible for criminal behavior, such as serial, same-sex molestations.

The Vatican has often visited the issue of homosexuality, reflecting an unbending theological opposition but also an acknowledgment that discrimination based on sexual preference is not justified.

In 2003, homosexuality was described as a "troubling moral and social phenomenon" in a document by the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then headed by German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who became Pope Benedict this year.

Vatican teaching also holds that homosexuals are "intrinsically disordered." The church, however, says gays and lesbians should be treated with compassion and dignity.
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Old 11-22-2005, 05:01 PM   #50
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Well, if it's just active gays, I don't think it's too big of a deal then. Priests aren't supposed to be having sex anyway, right? I can understand that.

I'm not as keen on the decision that "those who support gay culture are unwelcome in the priesthood," though. I mean, it's not that big of surprise, since the Church recognizes homosexuality as a disorder and therefore wouldn't want its priests supporting the 'disorder', but it's certainly not a step forward in reconciling with the homosexual community.

Though, honestly, if I was a homosexual, I probably wouldn't be hanging around the Church much these days anyway.
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Old 11-22-2005, 05:20 PM   #51
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it seems like the current Pope knows a thing or two about "gay culture."

[q]NewsTrack
Benedict known for clothes style
VATICAN CITY, Nov. 4 (UPI) -- Pope Benedict XVI is developing a reputation as a clotheshorse with his taste for Prada shoes and designer sunglasses.

The pope has also reportedly turned to another tailor for his vestments, dropping Annibale Gammarelli, whose firm has been serving the Vatican since 1792.

The Tablet, a Roman Catholic newspaper in England, points to the new pope's expensive sunglasses, which Vatican officials say were a present. He has also been spotted in baseball caps and red shoes from Prada.

Pope John XXIII may have splurged on his Popemobiles. But his taste in clothes was extremely simple, demonstrated by the worn loafers that were on his feet as his body lay in state.

The new pope's relationship with Gammarelli is unclear. The Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera suggested what is in play is Benedict's comfort with what he knows and he is more comfortable with the tailor who made his vestments while he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

The Tablet, on the other hand, said that Gammarelli made three cassocks in different sizes to be available for whoever was elected by the papal conclave. Unfortunately, none of them fit Benedict well, forcing him to appear in one that was too large.





© Copyright 2005 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.ph...4-033138-4056r

[/q]
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by XHendrix24
Well, if it's just active gays, I don't think it's too big of a deal then. Priests aren't supposed to be having sex anyway, right? I can understand that.
I wish the Vatican would then write a document banning active heterosexual priests. And, yet, they never feel the need to single those priests out, now do they?

Basically, this document is nothing more than a regurgitation of the 1961 status quo to placate church conservatives and to further ostracize an unwanted minority.

Melon
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:50 PM   #53
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Originally posted by melon


I wish the Vatican would then write a document banning active heterosexual priests.
they already have (many many years ago) but the reasons where different from what anyone might think... The catholic church said that celibate was a way to be closer to God, but that was just an excuse. celibate avoids the repartition of the goods of the church through heritage.

I was raised in a catholic family and the fundaments of my personal faith are catholic, but i feel that the church, as a human institution, has failed a lot, cuz they only want to rule people`s live but not to help them.

I' ve never understood why women and gay people are not allowed to be priest... God message is for everybody and everybody can spread it.
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:55 PM   #54
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Personally I can't understand why a gay person would even give the Vatican and more conservative American Catholic churches the time of day.
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:19 PM   #55
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Personally I can't understand why a gay person would even give the Vatican and more conservative American Catholic churches the time of day.
Cross off the word "gay," and that's the question I ask all the time.

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Old 11-22-2005, 09:15 PM   #56
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Bloody hell, you would almost think they were Catholics.
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Old 11-22-2005, 09:29 PM   #57
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but don't you see? this simple fact negates all his good qualities.

and it's amazing how many gay people -- this one included, until fairly recently -- believe that as well.
It does, and it's just not fair. This really disturbs me.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:23 PM   #58
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Here's a great article by one of my favorite journalists:

Roman Inquisition
by JoAnn Wypijewski

December 2005/January 2006 issue of Mother Jones

Commentary: For a thousand years the Catholic Church has been a refuge for gay men. Now Pope Benedict hopes to "purify" his priesthood.

Unlike some Catholics of a certain age, who moan that the sex abuse scandal that burst onto the front pages almost four years ago shattered their faith in the presumed purity of priests, I didn’t grow up with the notion of priests as saints. Those in my acquaintance ate too much, smoked like stacks, bet on horses, and earned our allegiance, or didn’t, by the quality of their hearts. Saints, in any case, were dead, and I was vaguely aware of my own childish hubris in aspiring to be one. It was much later that I realized many of the saints weren’t even saints, in the colloquial sense of the word. As if to underscore that fact, in the midst of the scandal, in 2002 Pope John Paul II canonized a man who not only wrestled with devils, flagellated himself to bleeding, fasted to the point of collapse, and bore the stigmata but was also accused of having had sexual dalliances with women and of pomading his hair, perfuming his body, and wearing makeup. The Vatican once forbade Padre Pio, or Saint Pio da Pietrelcina as he is now called, from teaching teenage boys and hearing the confessions of women. The ladies had taken to fighting each other for the chance to repent their sins before this voluptuary of suffering. He took money in the confessional, and Rome was so unsettled by the extravagance of his mysticism and his cult that twice it put him under investigation. His own order, the Capuchins, bugged his cell after accusations arose that he brought women there. He died, in 1968, addicted to Valium and downers.

read on here:
http://www.motherjones.com/commentar...quisition.html
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:58 PM   #59
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Damn. That's scary. I wonder how far the investigation will go? My state is only 2% Catholic. I wonder if any of our priests will get the boot? After all, the pedophilia scandal *did* affect our diocese.
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:50 AM   #60
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The Vatican banning all gay priests? So who are they going to have left *for* priests?
Heterosexual paedophiles ?
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