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Old 10-10-2003, 06:06 PM   #16
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Originally posted by melon


I don't get it either, and I finally put my foot down over the past couple years.

Religion is the greatest obstacle to God.

Melon
I agree 100%.
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Old 10-10-2003, 06:21 PM   #17
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But you don't have a choice with the administration except to speak your mind and vote every 4 years. But there's many different denominations to choose from, or speak out from within. It's just that I've never really heard of any strong movement from within the Catholic Church. I'm just curious, I'm not knocking anyone's beliefs. Personally I have some very strong feelings about the Catholic Church, and I know every church has their own problems, but it just seems politics are ruining the Catholic Church.
Being Catholic does not mean, as some think, anyway, that we think the Catholic Church is perfect. It's not. We don't have to like the politics. For me it's the Eucharist, the center of the mass, and a relationship with Jesus Christ. We share the belief in Jesus Christ with Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, as well as those sincere Christians who do not have a formal church affiliation. The Eucharist is what makes me a Catholic, not the Vatican.
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Old 10-10-2003, 07:27 PM   #18
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In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said: "Aids... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."
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Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".
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In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."
If the Vatican had to actually be accountable for their actions things might be a little different. Instead, they hide behind the immunity of their church-state. The above statements are so mind-numbingly sickening that their only correct answer would be to bring on full criminal charges for murder and genocide. I'm sorry, but with great power comes great responsibility, so they say. The Vatican knows damn well the impact their position on this has...
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Old 10-10-2003, 07:36 PM   #19
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Re: !

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Originally posted by elfyx

If the Vatican had to actually be accountable for their actions things might be a little different. Instead, they hide behind the immunity of their church-state. The above statements are so mind-numbingly sickening that their only correct answer would be to bring on full criminal charges for murder and genocide. I'm sorry, but with great power comes great responsibility, so they say. The Vatican knows damn well the impact their position on this has...
I hate stupid stuff like this.......where are they getting those dumb ideas? No one has taught me this ........
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Old 10-10-2003, 07:50 PM   #20
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Originally posted by verte76


I hate stupid stuff like this.......where are they getting those dumb ideas? No one has taught me this ........
I'm really pissed off about this whole situation, and so maybe my words didn't reflect my thoughts well enough.

Verte, I didn't mean to suggest or imply that all Catholics feel or think this way, and by NO means were suggesting you felt this way or should be charged as a criminal!!!

Sorry if I offended you...

I do still stand behind my feelings on the current 'official' stance of the Catholic chuch. I think it's utterly insane.

peace.
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Old 10-10-2003, 10:58 PM   #21
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I was raised Catholic, but I don't find much spirituality within a Church building anymore. For me it's a bit different because of my ethnicity in that Catholicism is ingrained in the culture, so you can't completely divorce culture and religion, but I am not a supporter of the Church hierarchy in any sense of the word.

I also don't believe you have to be Christian to find salvation or liberation, whichever way you look at it, and I am happy with my beliefs. I would not convert to a Protestant sect because I don't agree with any evangelical ones, no conservative ones and so on. I don't believe the Bible is the final authority, and therefore contradict the very basis of Protestantism.

Yes, religion as we know it is an obstacle to God. Truer words have never been spoken.
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Old 10-11-2003, 07:30 PM   #22
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Re: Re: Re: !

Quote:
Originally posted by elfyx


I'm really pissed off about this whole situation, and so maybe my words didn't reflect my thoughts well enough.

Verte, I didn't mean to suggest or imply that all Catholics feel or think this way, and by NO means were suggesting you felt this way or should be charged as a criminal!!!

Sorry if I offended you...

I do still stand behind my feelings on the current 'official' stance of the Catholic chuch. I think it's utterly insane.

peace.
No, you didn't offend me. I did want to distance myself from those idiots who were making those stupid claims about condoms and health. It was reported in the newspapers that the U.N. health officials denounced the Cardinal who made the stupid claims. The claims are idiotic and totally irresponsible and they piss me off too.
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Old 10-12-2003, 02:45 AM   #23
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I am Catholic in some sort of sense of the word. I believe in what i believe in and dont need someone to tell me what to believe in. The Church needs to do some serious analyzing, they need a Pope that will change the Church and change its perception worldwide. I dont concern myself with what is happening politcally with the Church as i never mix reilgion and politics but i do think for some reason that the Pope is somehow a person i respect and care for. I dont know why that is, but it is.
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Old 10-12-2003, 11:15 AM   #24
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I respect the Pope. He's done some amazing things, like help liberate Eastern Europe from a horrific totalitarian political situation (nice supporting act from Gorbachev, must credit him also). He has led the Church for 25 years. But then, heck, I'm Catholic, albeit a liberal one. In this neck of the woods, which is dominated by conservative Protestants, it's often us Catholics who are unacceptably "liberal".
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:56 PM   #25
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I agree with alot of what verte is saying. There is a big difference between dogma and doctrine. This condom thing is doctrine. The body of Christ, the prayers, the essential beliefs -- these are dogma and these are the reasons I am Catholic. I've been to other services and there just doesn't seem to the be structure and prayer and traditions that I want to support.

As for this edict, its one of many that I haven't agreed with this year. That being said, only 6% of the world's Catholics are American and many other Catholics outside of our borders are more strict. Americans shouldn't have the ONLY voice in the church.

I think this is wrong but think of it this way: if you support this edict, you're probably a conservative Catholic. And if you are a conservative Catholic, you are either not having sex or having unprotected sex simply for creation purposes in a marriage. I just can't see someone saying "Well the Catholic Church says condoms are bad and since the Catholic Church is always right, I'll make sure to have unprotected sex with my three girlfriends that don't know about each other."
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Old 10-14-2003, 08:00 PM   #26
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It depends in some areas of the world the Catholic Church has tremendous authority. Up until the 1960's in Quebec, the Church very successfully dictated how people lived their lives. They had large families cause the Church told them to, they had an extra son to give to the priesthood. In societies where people are used to believing and obeying authority this statement will have a quite disasterous impact. And it's in those countries wher ethe AIDS problem si worst.
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Old 10-15-2003, 07:14 PM   #27
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but blackwood -- why would someone put merit in the AIDS report from the church and not put merit in the no sex before marriage teaching of the church? [not being a bitch, just trying to figure it out]
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Old 10-15-2003, 07:57 PM   #28
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Catholics in the West in the height of th Church's powers sure had sex outside of marriage (mostly males -as is the case in Africa to my understanding), yet they still held the Church's authority in other areas. There's also the difference between teachings on what you should do and teachings on what will happen. Catholics (and everyone else to be sure) sin all the time but that doesn't make then believ in hell any less? Not a direct analolgy but considering the view held by many radicals that AIDS is a punishment from God, maybe not. Plus in many areas in Africa there are traditions of polygamy. Conversion doesn't neccessarily mean these old ways of life vanish immediately. The Frankish kings practiced milder forms for polygamy for several generations after becoming Catholic as an ancient example.

EDIT:Oh and it's Blacksword btw.
Though you can call me Blackie if you like.
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