Va State Legislator-Black People Should "Get Over" Slavery

[MrsSpringsteen]

And he made other lovely comments too. I cannot believe that people in elected office say things like that in public and for publication- it's bad enough that they believe them and say them in private.

Black people 'should get over' slavery? Comment stuns lawmakers in Virginia
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
01/17/2007

RICHMOND, Va. — A state legislator said black people "should get over" slavery and questioned whether Jews should apologize "for killing Christ," drawing denunciations Tuesday from stunned colleagues.

Delegate Frank D. Hargrove, who is white and Christian, made his remarks in opposition to a measure that would apologize on the state's behalf to the descendants of slaves.

In an interview published Tuesday in The Daily Progress of Charlottesville, Hargrove, 79, said slavery ended nearly 140 years ago with the Civil War and added that "our black citizens should get over it."

The newspaper also quoted him as saying, "are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?"

Black lawmakers swiftly denounced Hargrove's comments.

"When somebody tells me I should just get over slavery, I can only express my emotion by projecting that I am appalled, absolutely appalled," said Delegate Dwight C. Jones, head of the Legislative Black Caucus.

Delegate David L. Englin also criticized Hargrove's remarks, recalling that his grandparents were driven from their homes in Poland "by people who believed that as Jews, we killed Christ."

When Hargrove rose to speak, he told Englin he didn't care about Englin's religion. "I think your skin was a little too thin," Hargrove said as lawmakers gasped and groaned.

 

[U2democrat]

YAY more embarrassing Virginia politicians!!!!!!!

Ironically enough Jim Webb will be giving the response to the SOTU, making the 2nd Virginian in a row to do so

I've met Del. Englin on several occasions, he's an outstanding delegate with a bright future ahead of him. Del. Hargrove on the other hand...meh. Never liked him.

 

[Justin24]

I am just saying what I heard an African American caller say on the Radio (560 KSFO) "That black people need to get over the reperations and slavery thing" It happened over 200 years ago. That they need to start living there own lives and stop blaming others for the problems they face now. (I heard this on the Radio)

What would you all say if the person who said this in the Legislative was black?

 

[BVS]

What would you all say if the person who said this in the Legislative was black?

I would say, well at least he could relate somehow, but he still doesn't speak for all black people.

 

[Justin24]

Are you esstially saying that we should carry the burden of what our ancestors did? If so then the same should go to the Egyptions, the dutch, the spanish etc...

 

[TheQuiet1]

There was a really interesting BBC Drama programme called 'Don't Shoot The Messenger'. This explains it better than my shoddy memory can:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5274198.stm

Anyway, there was a bit in the programme where the main character questioned the issue of slavery, whether it was really just a victimhood culture that was damaging to the black community and ended up being branded a coconut for his remarks. But the ending of the show was the most interesting part as it seemed to imply that in trying to right what he saw as the wrongs of black culture he just ended up damaging it.

That was really badly explained. I suppose you'd just have to watch it to see what I mean!

 

[Canadiens1131]

Are you esstially saying that we should carry the burden of what our ancestors did? If so then the same should go to the Egyptions, the dutch, the spanish etc...

Yep pretty much. Until the centuries-old after effects of slavery (hella poverty anyone?) finally wear off, anyway. I'd be much more willing to let some of Europe off the hook on the Holocaust if there weren't still reports of widespread anti-Semitism going on over there.

And as an average (assuming white) American, Justin, how is the 'burden" of slavery affecting you from day to day? I doubt it's much of a burden.

 

[Justin24]

First off I am hispanic and cuacassian. (Mostly hispanic) Slavery is not affecting me at all. What happened in the past can not be changed but we can and did change the future. We learned from our mistakes.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Some US citizens may beg to disagree

 

[BVS]

Are you esstially saying that we should carry the burden of what our ancestors did?

We do, look around. Look at the economic gaps and the racism we still have in this country. These are results of slavery, quit acting like it isn't.

 

[Justin24]

I am not saying it is. But it's the indvidual not all of society.

 

[BVS]

But it's the indvidual not all of society.

What's the individual?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

there are a lot of prominent african-americans who have similarlines of thought... bill cosby for one. not neccesarily a "get over it" stance... more of a not using it as a crutch for all the problems in the world line of thinking.

that said, wether you agree with it or not (and i'm not saying i do, mind you) as an elected legislator of your state you simply can not make a statement like that. intelligent discussion on the issue is one thing... moronic blanket statements is another.

 

[yolland]

Gotta love some of the reader comments on this from the Richmond Times-Dispatch...

I agree with Del. Hargrove. We had to give up Lee-Jackson day for MLK day. The civil war was as important to America as MLK. Why is it that "native" Americans are in the minority now?

Frank Hargrove is right, get over it. Only a race-hustler would stoop so low as to try to gin-up some fervor over slavery. What a shame that blacks can't see that thier oppressors today are their people.

A Jew who takes offense to this is either not very bright or a political opportunist without scruples. Calling everyone not themselves Gentiles is the oldest racist thinking surviving today.

I agree with Hargrove. You can blame others for your laziness only so long. You lie, cheat, steal and when caught - I'm Black or my grandparents died in the camps. Grow up!...

Amazing how much defensiveness the prospect of offering a few formal words of collective regret for a shameful historical legacy of 250 years and millions of lives lost or lived out in degradation, suffering and misery can stir up, isn't it? He finds this humiliating, or what? What would it cost him, what outrageously undeserved windfall does it offer to African-Americans? It is for him to decide how the progress of their "getting over it" is going and hold a collective expression of regret hostage to that? And the irony of him responding by reducing Jews to something done to one person by one small group of individuals 2000 years ago in another country 6000 miles away...sure, Delegate Hargrove, since you've chosen to frame things in those terms, let me assure you how grateful we are for the fantastic forgiveness "you people" have consistently shown us for 2000 years.

 

[nathan1977]

There's a great story in U2 at the End of the World where Bono is expressing hope that the inauguration of Bill Clinton will exorcise some of American's demons -- racism, slavery, taking the land from Native Americans, etc. At one point he says that there's only so much one can realistically do to make peace with the past. "Want to apologize to Native Americans? Okay, give back the land."

I don't know what to do about America's racist past, since it influences the present. From a religious perspective, there are a number of churches and ministries that have embarked on a process of racial reconciliation. While I'm not convinced reparations are the answer, I don't know what is. And until we figure out how to make it work, comments like Hargrove's are unhelpful in the extreme.

 

[anitram]

Is there something in the water in Virginia?

 

[A_Wanderer]

We do, look around. Look at the economic gaps and the racism we still have in this country. These are results of slavery, quit acting like it isn't.

Racism exists without slavery and poverty is multifactorial.

 

[BVS]

Racism exists without slavery and poverty is multifactorial.

Never said it was the only factor.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Is it because of disadvantage that reparations are relevent?

 

[yolland]

Just to clarify, the Virginia measure has nothing to do with reparations...

 

[Irvine511]

Is there something in the water in Virginia?

actually, it's quite nasty in the NoVA area. everyone i know owns a Brita filter.

but then, NoVA is the liberal part of the state and the economic hub of everything that basically subsidizes the rest of the state and their shockingly backwards attitudes. you know, the people who voted for George Allen and that repulsive "marriage" amendment.

 

[joyfulgirl]

With all due respect to our very progressive FYM Richmonder ... I grew up in southern Virginia and fled, quite literally, as soon as I graduated from college. While there are progressive pockets throughout the state, I am still appalled by how racist and backwards the thinking there is in my hometown and the surrounding area, including Richmond, and how much people in my town really resent me for having left and for thinking differently. Once my mother with Alzheimer's passes, I will probably never return to that part of the state. My young neices and nephew, however, do give me hope since they, so far, seem to be color blind. They didn't get that at home, so it must've been their good auntie's influence. Or, better yet, the random good teacher. Then again, I didn't get that at home either. I don't know what makes a kid think differently from the family they're raised in but I digress...

And there is definitely something in the water, but maybe not what you think. All five of my former roommates from college came out after we graduated. Every single one of them. I am the lone straight girl from my circle of college friends, lol.

 

[Canadiens1131]

And there is definitely something in the water, but maybe not what you think. All five of my former roommates from college came out after we graduated. Every single one of them. I am the lone straight girl from my circle of college friends, lol.

 

[U2democrat]

With all due respect to our very progressive FYM Richmonder ...

Who could that be...?



Yeah Virginia sure has it's problems, but I love living here. Maybe I can bring some more dignity to the political scene around here


By the way my ancestors owned a plantation here in Virginia that had several slaves, but I don't feel like I should be blamed for what they did Naturally I don't agree with it, and yes the repurcussions of slavery are still around, but that was 150 years ago and I have no control over it.

 

[Irvine511]

i think this is where inelegant but understandable programs like Affirmative Action come into play.

it doesn't seem right to hold, say, U2democrat accountable for slavery, or that she somehow owes a group of people a specific financial sum for past actions taken. she didn't choose to be born into her family, just like an inner-city African-American (or Paris Hilton) didn't choose where they were born. and the handing out of a lump sum of money isn't going to do much to rectify anyone's situation.

however, it also seems obvious that a history founded in slavery, as well as the persistent legacy of discrimination that is still very, very recent history, has repercussions for life today and many social ills that affect African-Americans in disproportionate numbers (crime, poverty, HIV/AIDS) can find their roots in historical injustices.

thus, it seems that there are things we can do on a societal level to help ameliorate the past that will not hold an individual personally accountable for a history that they might benefit from, but had no hand in creating.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

Me + 10 foot pole... no still not touching this.

 

[yolland]

By the way my ancestors owned a plantation here in Virginia that had several slaves, but I don't feel like I should be blamed for what they did Naturally I don't agree with it, and yes the repurcussions of slavery are still around, but that was 150 years ago and I have no control over it.

I'm sure that must be true of the ancestors of some of the delegates and other politicians supporting this measure, though. And slaveholders were hardly the only ones who profited from the slave system. One of the African-American sponsoring delegates, McEachin I think his name was, emphasized that the resolution is part of a still-needed healing process and that no one is asking any individual to apologize as there are neither slaves nor slaveholders around today.

Yeah Virginia sure has it's problems, but I love living here. Maybe I can bring some more dignity to the political scene around here

 

[U2democrat]

I'm sure that must be true of the ancestors of some of the delegates and other politicians supporting this measure, though. And slaveholders were hardly the only ones who profited from the slave system. One of the African-American sponsoring delegates, McEachin I think his name was, emphasized that the resolution is part of a still-needed healing process and that no one is asking any individual to apologize as there are neither slaves nor slaveholders around today.

Right, if I were in the legislature (which I will be one day... ) I'd vote for the resolution, but I would emphasize that while we are apologizing for Virginia's past with slavery, we need to move forward with race relations.


Speaking of Virginia and history and whatnot, everybody should come for the 400th anniversary of the landing at Jamestown this year Even Queen Elizabeth is coming

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It's something that happened long ago in history that still directly affects society today. As far as we progress and have progressed, the fact that their ancestors were treated like that must impact their views in ways that white people cannot understand. White people saying it, since white people were the ones who enslaved African Americans, is just patently offensive.

I'm surprised he didn't say that Jewish people should "get over" the Holocaust too.

 

[Justin24]

It's something that happened long ago in history that still directly affects society today. As far as we progress and have progressed, the fact that their ancestors were treated like that must impact their views in ways that white people cannot understand. White people saying it, since white people were the ones who enslaved African Americans, is just patently offensive.

I'm surprised he didn't say that Jewish people should "get over" the Holocaust too.

Whites were not the only slave owners.
http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/slavery.htm?terms=trans+atlantic

The Slave Trade
From Jessica McElrath,
Your Guide to African-American History.
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Slavery in Africa and Other Countries
From the earliest known history of Africa, slavery existed. However, slavery was much different from the modern day slavery that eventually came to dominate the New World. For most parts of Africa, slavery was not based on race. For example, Egyptians enslaved whomever they captured, regardless of race.

Slavery was also prevalent in other countries. Slavery was common to the Greek and Roman empires. Those that were enslaved were put to work in the fields and were used as personal servants to the wealthy. Menial work was not considered degrading, and slaves were given educational opportunities.

Intellectual Changes and the Acceptance of Slavery

The institution of slavery was strongly influenced by the Muslim invasion of Africa. They captured men to serve in the military and women to serve their harems. They sent slaves to Arabia and Persia. The demand for slaves was not substantial since it was dependent upon the needs of the wealthy. Slaves were not needed to work in fields. Instead, they were treated as servants and did not experience the same harshness as modern slaves.

The institution of modern slavery was influenced by a change in the worldview. This change resulted from the influence of the Renaissance period and from the Commercial Revolution. The Renaissance created a new outlook on the individual. Renaissance thought promoted the idea that the rights and interests of the individual took precedence over the benefit of others. The Commercial Revolution, on the other hand, took place after feudalism had ended, and it created a new avenue of commercial activities to pursue. With the rise of commercial endeavors came competition and greed. Based upon these changes, modern slavery arose in an era where greed and self-interest dominated.

By the end of the fourteenth century, Europeans, mainly Portuguese and Spaniards, began bringing African slaves to Europe. They made them into servants, and justified it by rationalizing that they were introducing them to Christianity. The slave trade quickly became a profitable and an accepted part of European commerce.

By the end of the fifteenth century, European trade relations with African’s were well established. Forts and trading ports were built. However, the slave trade was not exceedingly profitable, nor was it engaged in on a large scale. There was not a substantial demand for slaves in European countries. Slaves mainly served the wealthy, and of the many jobs that were available, the white landless population filled them. Thus, slavery in Europe had no profitable future.

As Europeans were exploring the New World, Africans often accompanied them serving as explorers and servants. The New World was full of natural resources that European countries were interested in exploiting. For this, labor was needed. Despite having Africans working in other capacities, Europeans did not immediately enslave them. Instead, since Native Americans were readily available, they were used as slaves first. However, because Europeans brought diseases, there was a high mortality rate and the work was too harsh.

Europeans next looked to the employment of poor whites to serve as indentured servants. However, many problems arose. Often indentured servants ran away, refused to serve out their term, and there were not enough of them to work in the fields.

Thus, the enslavement of Africans quickly became the solution.

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www.Starware.com/Reference
It appeared to solve the need of cheap labor since slaves in Africa could be easily obtained.
The Slave Trade

In 1517, the trans-Atlantic slave trade officially began. As slave trading developed into big business, European countries vied for dominance. By the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the main traders were Dutch, French, and English companies. While independent traders existed, the Dutch West India Company and the English Royal African Company monopolized trading relations on the African coast. However, in the end, England came to dominate trading, and began providing slaves to not only its own colonies, but to other countries colonies.

The trading process began at trading posts on the west coast of Africa. African kings and merchants cooperated and traded slaves for European goods that included guns, whiskey, brandy, cotton textiles, and utensils made out of brass, pewter, and ivory. The trading of European goods for slaves was known as the first leg of the triangular trade.

Obtaining slaves was not always easy. Africans acquired slaves by capturing Africans from other tribes. Not all captors went without a fight. When the opportunity arose, attempts were made to escape. Some even jumped into the ocean rather than be taken to the New World. Those that did not escape had to endure the long trip across the Atlantic Ocean to the New World. This was called the middle passage of the triangular trade.

The last phase of the triangular trade occurred after slaves were brought to the Americas. When slaves arrived, they were sold to plantations. In exchange for the slaves, traders received goods such as cotton, tobacco, and sugar, and returned to Europe with these items. This was the last leg of the triangular trade.

In early 1800s, many countries began banning the slave trade. Denmark (1803), Great Britain (1807), and the United States (1807) were the first to ban the importation of slaves. The Swedish and Dutch followed. Because of economic interests, Great Britain put pressure on France, Spain, Portugal, and Brazil to end their involvement. Portugal and Spain agreed after an arrangement for a cash payment from Britain was reached. Brazil did not agree until military action was taken against its coastal areas. France also did not agree to ban trading until 1815, but black market slave trading still existed until 1848.

Reference: From Slavery to Freedom: A History of African Americans, John Hope Franklin & Alfred A. Moss, Jr., 2000. ISBN 0-375-40671-9